Oh my god

[MC]

Con`tra`dic´tious

a. 1. Filled with contradictions; inconsistent.

2. Inclined to contradict or cavil

 

 

Isn't the internet great?

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[pin]

There is precident though, with handguns, is there not? Ok they were licenced to start with but some of the processes used there could be used here, no?

 

The problem here is the magnitude of the task, the longer nothing changes the harder that task becomes. From now on in there should be a record kept of who buys what and like firearms an obligation to inform change of ownership. That way when the inevitable happens in a few years the problem isn't as big as it would have been.

 

You have to start somewhere

[the pelt man]

Pelt Man, my reference to Policing and Determined is in the context of all the legal limit airguns that are currently in ownership. It will take some time and effort to ensure these guns are either licensed or handed in. It would be foolish to think that everyone not wanting a license would comply.

 

It is still the right way forward though.

 

 

Sorry, i'm with you now.

Yes you are completly right. One way to slowly reduce this problem is that you have to produce your licence to buy pellets or gun parts the same as other Guns. Any responsable Gun owner wouldn't give away pellets to a non-licence holder. I think also that those twits with Air Guns at the moment that take pot shots would soon loose intrest in doing what they do if you do change the law on Air guns, because i think that the lack of control makes them feel that there is no real problem misstreating these weapons in the way they do. As said before bring the punishment in line with the rest of firearms & these twits will slowly go away.

 

 

PELTMAN

 

I read "contradictious", as an amalgamation of "contradictory" and "contentious", which I though was quite appropriate.

 

 

& hence the use

 

PELTMAN

[COLINSRI]

The story is appauling. I would report them to the local FLO, they don't deserve the licence to trade air guns.

 

I wouldn't like to see (sub 12lb) air guns licensed. Perhaps raise the limit to 21, as most of the crimes are committed by youngsters....harsh but true.

[pin]

As has been said until the law is tightened and there is licencing nothing will change. All raising the age does is make it slightly harder to get a gun as a youngster and does nothing to help with the many thousans of guns already out there.

 

Like firearms crime isn't committed with licenced firearms (by and large) neither is airgun misuse perpitrated by mature responsible adults.

[Mungler]

Pelt Man, my reference to Policing and Determined is in the context of all the legal limit airguns that are currently in ownership. It will take some time and effort to ensure these guns are either licensed or handed in. It would be foolish to think that everyone not wanting a license would comply.

 

It is still the right way forward though.

 

 

Sorry, i'm with you now.

Yes you are completly right. One way to slowly reduce this problem is that you have to produce your licence to buy pellets or gun parts the same as other Guns. Any responsable Gun owner wouldn't give away pellets to a non-licence holder. I think also that those twits with Air Guns at the moment that take pot shots would soon loose intrest in doing what they do if you do change the law on Air guns, because i think that the lack of control makes them feel that there is no real problem misstreating these weapons in the way they do. As said before bring the punishment in line with the rest of firearms & these twits will slowly go away.

 

 

PELTMAN

 

I read "contradictious", as an amalgamation of "contradictory" and "contentious", which I though was quite appropriate.

 

 

& hence the use

 

PELTMAN

 

 

 

 

"Contradictious" by definition however is not an adjunct of or amalgm of the word "contentious".

 

The learning just never stops with this forum...

[the pelt man]

PELTMAN

 

I read "contradictious", as an amalgamation of "contradictory" and "contentious", which I though was quite appropriate.

 

 

& hence the use

 

PELTMAN

 

 

 

 

"Contradictious" by definition however is not an adjunct of or amalgm of the word "contentious".

 

The learning just never stops with this forum...

 

It may or may not be but who are you to say ?

[MC]

The story is appauling. I would report them to the local FLO, they don't deserve the licence to trade air guns

 

I agree with this, There is a gun shop near me that has firearms laying around all over the place. Even the ones in the racks aren't locked up. I had visited this shop just before my renewal so it was mentioned to the FLO.

 

We have a hard enough time as it is, without these idiots helping out.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Cranfield]

I read "contradictious", as an amalgamation of "contradictory" and "contentious", which I though was quite appropriate. :yp:

 

 

 

"Contradictious" by definition however is not an adjunct of or amalgm of the word "contentious".

 

The learning just never stops with this forum...

 

My comment was rather "tongue in cheek", given the posts that had gone before.

Perhaps we need a "tongue in cheek" smilie. :yp:

 

 

the pelt man, remember what Forum you are on and stop posting long words we don't know the meaning of. :(

[the pelt man]

Sorry

i just found it in this book my wife got from Oxford, you want a get one theres hundereds in there

 

 

PELTMAN

[Mungler]

PELTMAN

 

I read "contradictious", as an amalgamation of "contradictory" and "contentious", which I though was quite appropriate.

 

 

& hence the use

 

PELTMAN

 

 

 

 

"Contradictious" by definition however is not an adjunct of or amalgm of the word "contentious".

 

The learning just never stops with this forum...

 

It may or may not be but who are you to say ?

 

 

 

Just to clarify and because I never let go...

 

The Dictionary.com definition of "Contradictious" has been posted by Martincavie.

 

It is therefore Dictionary.com and not me who is saying that "Contradictious" is not an adjunct of or amalgm of the word "contentious".

 

The Dictionary.com definition of "contradictious" is:

 

1. Filled with contradictions; inconsistent.

2. Inclined to contradict or cavil

 

There is no reference to "Contentious".

 

Now, having looked up "cavil" I can say with some certainty that is now becoming quite "cavilous".

 

Ah, the learning never stops.

[pin]

That word is a yank word, it isn't in Collins or Oxford so the point is moot

 

That definition is "Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.".

[Evilv]

The laws need to be changed, Regulations need to come into play, that is not going to happen unless responsible shooters also take up a stance willing to help the authoritys, to impose such restrictions. That is the reason for this thread. So that you can all see the problem for yourself's.

 

I don't want to be rude Mimic, but that's a very foolish idea. Has the control of firearms reduced gun crime at all? Has the removal of ALL pistols from certificate holders in 1997 done anything to reduce gun crime committed with pistols? We already have almost the severest control of firearms anywhere on the planet, but gun crime is running away. The reason is that it is virtually impossible to get caught bringing in an eastern european firearm in the boot of your car, or a box of automatic pistols, come to that. Since our glorious rulers leave ports virtually open to anyone in the world to walk in or ride in the back of a truck, what's the point of banning joe public from buying an 11 ft pound pop gun? None at all, I'd suggest.

 

Of course, rather than deal with the swarms of illegal immigrants and the parlous state of our border security, the New Labour spin machine, devoted vast amounts of parliamentary time to banning fox hunting and other desperately dangerous country activities liable to bring chaos and mayhem to our nation. Who could deny that stopping a few toffs from chasing foxes and banning hare coursing was much more vital than stopping Abu Hamza from promoting treason and terrorism on our streets in full public view.

 

I'm sure Tony will be delighted to have your support in a new initiative to make him and his useless prolls of politicians look as if they are protecting us from harm. Well done - NOT!

 

The answer to yobbos misusing airguns is to hammer the **** out of them when they get caught. It is not to make ordinary people jump through hoops like we have to just to own a puny rimfire rifle to shoot on our own or a friend's land. Free country? Not if the likes of you get your way.

[COLINSRI]

says it all.

[Evilv]

Having read further, I can't believe how many control freaks there are in here advocating total control of airguns. What next - certificates for carving knives, hammers, knitting needles?

 

You don't need to restrict access you need to punish offenders. The whole relationship of the state to the individual is going wrong in this country. I should be free to acquire objects, and act in liberty until I injure the rights of someone else. Then, the law should act against me. Turning the country into a big jail where you need a bit of paper to show you can walk the streets (identity card - another wish of control feaks) only makes us all like slaves. Hundreds of thousands of people enjoy their airguns in their back gardens, fields and at clubs. A few dozen do stupid and deplorable things with them. Punish the guilty NOT the innocent.

[Dave-G]

Quote:

5 years for mis use of an air gun? The police would be charging any air gun offence in that case. We dont want more regulation, the nanny state is bad enough as it is thank you very much.

Quote:

Not exactly, The 5 year sentence could never be imposed because there is not enough room in the jails. However the yobs don't know that , a Substantial fine (10 grand) might be implemented.

 

 

 

 

Erm... I think the yobs DO know that - all too well. The generally well behaved minor law breakers who drop a piece of litter, break a speed limit, dump the wrong kind of rubbish in their wheelie bin, use an air rifle in their own back garden etc are the ones who get penalised. The yobs relish their conviction as a badge of honour, and just won't bother paying a fine in the knowledge they won't get banged up, so plod don't waste time on them. They are not going to bother licensing their air rifles. Likewise many more people will merely give them to someone else rather than licence them.

 

Licencing is, in my opinion unworkable. There are many levels of "illegal" and punishment. Let's look at two hypothetics for a while - without condoning either.

 

A home owning mature working and sober family man takes an air rifle to a deserted industrial estate, or rubbish tip late at night and shoots rats.

 

A bunch of unemployed teens drive around an industrial estate in an untaxed car with no mot or insurance in the evening shooting street light and anything that moves.

 

Who will get the heaviest penalty?

[il cacciatore]

It makes me shudder when I hear calls from within the shooting community for more restrictions on their own sport.

 

All restrictions should be resisted. We have no given right comparible to the US constitution to bear arms so I would speak with caution when this freedom that has been granted by the government could so easily be withdrawn. Every single new restriction is another nail in the coffin of the shooting sport in the UK.

 

Banning air rifles or even licencing them will not stop anyone who really wants one from getting one. Should I remind you that its possible for a criminal to obtain a fully functioning AK47 in the UK? If they want something then they'll get it because criminals operate outwith the law. Law abiding citizens operate within it and therefore are the only people affected by tighter laws and regulations. Delinquents abusing air rifles should be prosecuted to the fullest extent under the law as it stands which I think youll find is more than adequate but isnt used correctly.

 

Labour shouldnt be the only ones getting blamed for gun control but the Conservatives were just as bad with the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 and banning all pistols except .22. They are all as bad as each other.

[the pelt man]

CRANFIELD

 

shall I or am i waisting my time :(

 

 

PELTMAN

 

 

. Has the control of firearms reduced gun crime at all? Has the removal of ALL pistols from certificate holders in 1997 done anything to reduce gun crime committed with pistols? We already have almost the severest control of firearms anywhere on the planet, but gun crime is running away. The reason is that it is virtually impossible to get caught bringing in an eastern european firearm in the boot of your car, or a box of automatic pistols, come to that.

 

We are talking about Air Guns i dont think they are brought in under the cover of darkness when there are no laws in the UK for them to be licenced.

Of course, rather than deal with the swarms of illegal immigrants and the parlous state of our border security, the New Labour spin machine, devoted vast amo

unts of parliamentary time to banning fox hunting and other desperately dangerous country activities liable to bring chaos and mayhem to our nation. Who could deny that stopping a few toffs from chasing foxes and banning hare coursing was much more vital than stopping Abu Hamza from promoting treason and terrorism on our streets in full public view.

 

Terrorism is brought here by Bush/Blair & the Con's if in power, through what we are doing in there part of the world. Keep our nose out or support the right people NO Terrorism

 

 

The answer to yobbos misusing airguns is to hammer the **** out of them when they get caught. It is not to make ordinary people jump through hoops like we have to just to own a puny rimfire rifle to shoot on our own or a friend's land. Free country? Not if the likes of you get your way.

 

I realy dont think getting another or a new Rifle on a FAC is jumping through hoops :yp:

 

 

Quote:

5 years for mis use of an air gun? The police would be charging any air gun offence in that case. We dont want more regulation, the nanny state is bad enough as it is thank you very much.

Quote:

Not exactly, The 5 year sentence could never be imposed because there is not enough room in the jails. However the yobs don't know that , a Substantial fine (10 grand) might be implemented.

 

 

 

 

. The yobs relish their conviction as a badge of honour, and just won't bother paying a fine in the knowledge they won't get banged up, so plod don't waste time on them. They are not going to bother licensing their air rifles.

 

f the have to show there licence to buy ammo what will they do.

 

Likewise many more people will merely give them to someone else rather than licence them.

 

Then they will have to Licence them

 

Licencing is, in my opinion unworkable.

 

Like FAC's A

 

 

It makes me shudder when I hear calls from within the shooting community for more restrictions on their own sport.

 

We are calling for others to be stopped from giving or sport a bad name.

 

Every single new restriction is another nail in the coffin of the shooting sport in the UK.

 

In yho

 

Banning air rifles or even licencing them will not stop anyone who really wants one from getting one. Should I remind you that its possible for a criminal to obtain a fully functioning AK47 in the UK? If they want something then they'll get it because criminals operate outwith the law.

 

Yes but we are talking about the others that you will stop, The pot shot yob.

 

Delinquents abusing air rifles should be prosecuted to the fullest extent under the law as it stands which I think youll find is more than adequate but isnt used correctly.

 

Yes but that costs a lot of taxpayers money its cheaper to regulate a licence system.

 

 

 

 

You all seem to lose sight that a lot of crime can be stopped by a licence system those crimes beiing the pot shots at Animals & people which make up a larg number of the gun crim figs.

 

PELTMAN

[Evilv]

It makes me shudder when I hear calls from within the shooting community for more restrictions on their own sport.

 

All restrictions should be resisted. We have no given right comparible to the US constitution to bear arms so I would speak with caution when this freedom that has been granted by the government could so easily be withdrawn. Every single new restriction is another nail in the coffin of the shooting sport in the UK.

 

Banning air rifles or even licencing them will not stop anyone who really wants one from getting one. Should I remind you that its possible for a criminal to obtain a fully functioning AK47 in the UK? If they want something then they'll get it because criminals operate outwith the law. Law abiding citizens operate within it and therefore are the only people affected by tighter laws and regulations. Delinquents abusing air rifles should be prosecuted to the fullest extent under the law as it stands which I think youll find is more than adequate but isnt used correctly.

 

Labour shouldnt be the only ones getting blamed for gun control but the Conservatives were just as bad with the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 and banning all pistols except .22. They are all as bad as each other.

 

Well said. I agree.

 

There is a stupid idea gaining ground that the more controled we are the better and happier we will be. I've even heard freaks demanding number plates for bicycles because some plonkers in lycra jump traffic lights. NOTHING gets my goat more than having to ask policemen and burocrats if I can do ordinary things - excercising freedoms that we've had for years. Law should start with a presumption that the citizen is free to engage in whatever hobbies and pastimes he likes, unless in doing so he damages the rights of others, and that doesn't mean that he might, or that he conceivably could do harm if he happens to be mad. That was the basis of the handguns ban, the repeating shotguns ban and a whole lot of other bans - that some nutter could flip and do harm, so the presumption must be that everyone is a nutter. Every time some loony does something horrid, the cops are demanding more and more controls and mandatory sentences. Jeez - my own Chief Constable was recently on record demanding a mandatory five year sentence for anyone found in the street with anything sharp about his person - I kid you not. Now we have sporting shooters calling for the assumption to be enacted into law that people who might buy airguns are probably not responsibel enough to have them and should be banned from buying a milbro pellet because they probably want to blind a cat with it.

 

By the way, I got banned from airgunbbs for taking this line with some self appointed 'representatives of the better sort in the sport', who advocated that no one should be allowed to have an airgun unless they had been OKayed by people like them who ran shooting clubs after a probationary period to see that they were thoroughly the right sort (ie, just like them, a bunch of opinionated old ****).

[Evilv]

You all seem to lose sight that a lot of crime can be stopped by a licence system those crimes beiing the pot shots at Animals & people which make up a larg number of the gun crim figs.

 

PELTMAN

 

Oh yes, like nobody is shooting up Nottingham city centre with hand guns every night of the week are they? Handgun crime has NEVER been so high, so what price the handgun ban?

 

Like I said earlier, you can bring anything you like through the Channel Ports. They don't have enough manpower to stop smuggling on a massive scale. I'm told you can buy a handgun and ammunition for three or four hundred quid in some places, so how will a licensing system stop yobs getting new air weapons, let alone any of the hundreds of thousands of airguns that are legally held now?

[digger]

im a bit lost now,are dictionaries to be licensed ?

[the pelt man]

 

You all seem to lose sight that a lot of crime can be stopped by a licence system those crimes beiing the pot shots at Animals & people which make up a larg number of the gun crim figs.

 

PELTMAN

 

Oh yes, like nobody is shooting up Nottingham city centre with hand guns every night of the week are they? Handgun crime has NEVER been so high, so what price the handgun ban?

 

Like I said earlier, you can bring anything you like through the Channel Ports. They don't have enough manpower to stop smuggling on a massive scale. I'm told you can buy a handgun and ammunition for three or four hundred quid in some places, so how will a licensing system stop yobs getting new air weapons, let alone any of the hundreds of thousands of airguns that are legally held now?

 

 

Evilv

 

Sorry but i dont think that i am an old *** & i dont wish to join any Gun Club.

 

I am not saying that the hand gun ban did make any dif but can you please tell me how many hand gun crimes would have been commited up to date had the ban not been in place

 

AGAIN, The large part of Air gun crime commited is by yobs shooting at animals & people because they have easy access to Air guns that dont require a licence. Do you honestly think THESE type of people will be going around looking for Air Guns on the black market when they can get any other type of weapon with a lot more power, I THINK NOT.

 

As said before if you have the same rules as for FAC guns now it would REDUCE by a long way Air Gun crime.

 

 

As for you being baned from another forum it just maybe that its not that they are old **** that run gun clubs it maybe something that you posted.

If you don't like there veiws & rules who would want to be a member anyway.

 

For you i think writting this post will never change your mind as it is set. But for those who are not sure which way to go on the licencing of Air Guns will read these post & form an educated opinion, may it be in support of what you say & others or what i say & others.

 

Regards

PELTMAN

[^mimic^]

Please explain why you have a problem with licensing your air gun if you use it responsibly? ,To pay a small license for your airgun. to help provide the necisary funds allowing increased penaltys to be implemented.

[digger]

what we have here is a failure to communicate,some men you just cant reach.i dont like it any more than you.i know,lets give the old bill licence to brand all air gun owners hoodie wearing cat killers,after all they cant police us so lets jump in their arms.

lets break it down into basic statistics,how many babies are shot with airguns ? how many cats are run over ?

ooh lets declare our cars as deadly weapons

mimic you started this topic with what seemed like a reasonable post but now i know you were just digging for lugs in a sewage farm.

you got an agenda take it elsewhere

[^mimic^]

mimic you started this topic with what seemed like a reasonable post but now i know you were just digging for lugs in a sewage farm.

you got an agenda take it elsewhere

 

 

Ok so the defense for airgunners is that most of them do not care or wish to do anything about the problem and are against, any attempt to bring the problem under control.