hafod Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 hi can anyone tell me if there are any legal issues in buying a set of .224 bullet swaging dies from the usa and swage your own bullets from .22 r/f cases , bearing in mind that some of the bullets you can produce would be classed as expanding missiles which is what i would be interested in producing how would you stand with the powers that be in your local firearms dept , at the moment the only thing putting me off buying a set is the cost of the dies , and if there are any legal issues of producing your own expanding missiles in the uk the american shooters i,ve spoken to on american websites who produce their own swaged .224 bullets claim execellent results in .222 and .223 amminiution as i would be interested in doing 55 grain expanding bullets for my .222 rifle and because my rifle loves 55 grain pills regards andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 You can buy the gear here, try Henry Krank of leeds for solid lead rounds. This is far from from a waste of time in a reduced load for that .222 it can make a cheap way to practice and an effective short range vermin round. As for making your own copper jacketed rounds i have to concur a total waste of time .224 rounds are very available, cheap and of a higher quality than you might produce- i certainly wouldn't consider pulling .22 rf rounds to achieve this aim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 At £14 per 100 for soft points is it worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 At £14 per 100 for soft points is it worth it? that depends on what you do with the gun, how much you shoot, how far the dealer is and the depth of you pockets. For someone with a suplly of scrap lead and the time and inclination........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 And if he casts his own bullets then he can hold as many as he likes because they won't be designed as expanding? Like the difference between vmax and Amax. What will the likely accuracy/velocity/ft'lbs be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) And if he casts his own bullets then he can hold as many as he likes because they won't be designed as expanding? Like the difference between vmax and Amax. What will the likely accuracy/velocity/ft'lbs be? you cannot run lead bullets very fast through the bore and need to work with different powders to get the speeds. Rule of thumb about WMR levels. kind of neat to have two guns in one and a cheap way of practicing off hand shooting etc in quantity, will obviously hold back throat errosion to boot. .222 is an ideal candidate for this treatment. 22-250, .243 etc poor Edited August 27, 2012 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Cases=brass Bullets=copper (lead core) Why the hell bother wasting your time repeating an excercise deemed necessary in post war years before mass manufactiring of quality 22 bullets resumed. You are simply putting time and effort into a lower quality item with a harder jacket to increase barrel wear. Waste of time I feel the urge to split hairs Factory bullet jackets are not copper, but brass Very soft brass granted, called 'gilding metal', which is 95% copper, 5% Zinc. Cartridge case brass is about 70% copper 30% zinc. But I agree with the sentiment, home swaged bullets using .22 RF cases as jackets will be harder and probably wear the bore a bit faster The other reason for doing it is the sheer satisfaction of making as much of the ammunition you use as possible. I have never swaged bullets but I've cast a lot and got a level of satisfaction from it which far outweighed the cost savings, so I can see the attraction of swaging. I suppose it all depends whether you enjoy reloading as a hobby in it's own right, or see it as a chore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 At £14 per 100 for soft points is it worth it? Not in the slightest you gain nothing at all, no one can argue even Kent that it's beneficial and superior to standard bullets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Not in the slightest you gain nothing at all, no one can argue even Kent that it's beneficial and superior to standard bullets your getting all mixed up about the word superiour. it dont have to be faster or even more accurate just better than something else for the users purpose, that might even be the pleasure of doing it yourself for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafod Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 from what i,ve read on the subject by the time you clean and anneal your fired r/f cases the jacket is very soft indeed , try it for yourself anneal a r/f case they will deform with slight finger and thumb pressure so i cannot see any issue with barrel wear , and besides i,m not looking to produce anything that rivals comercially made bullets as long as they can match a commercial made one then thats fine with me , prices for bullets are only going to go up my friends , i know that a lot of people would not be interested in swaging so the thread is aimed at those of us who are many american shooters will tell you that they are having problems in the states buying reloading componants ( simply look on nosler , barnes , sierra etc etc websites and a good majority of .224 bullets are unavaiavble ) so thats one of the reasons why a lot of american shooters are hoarding what they can buy , ( .224 bullets and primers and powders are prime examples of what are being hoarded at the moment ) and thats why a lot of them are starting to swaging there own , with 90 % of reloading componants we use here in the uk coming from the us manufactures anyway , so if the shortages in the american domestic market contiune , then we simply will not have any chance of getting componants , so that was reason for the question in the first place , and besides i like the challanges that this kind of thing presents , and the satisfaction of droping that fox in his tracks with a swaged bullet that you made , priceless regards andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicehorn Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Well put Andy - agree that obtaining just heads is getting more difficult. Must confess had never considered swaging and now having looked at Corbins website http://www.corbins.com/index.htm can understand your interest and the variety possible - who knows, with the problems of demand outstripping supply in the UK, more people will turn to this method especially as so many factory heads are not too consistant in the weight/length department. I would not be surprised, if when Churchill delivered the speech 'We will fight them on the beaches' there were some that thought it a waste of time lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Its Been raining outside hasnt it. What are you suggesting? You're right though, hasn't sodding stopped all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) How you get a solid lead subsonic from a brass case defies my mind? Blunderbuss, you are correct but i didnt go into detail. The percentage increas in one alloying element can be far lower than its corresponding effect on the material's properties, just look at carbon content in steels and cast iron as an example. i was refering to cast bullets, rimfire heads are too small for all but the early .223 hornets. Remmington are easy to separate though the darn heads are always comming loose LOL. pulling .22 rf rounds is easy but i shouldn't use a kinetic hammer Edited August 27, 2012 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafod Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 thank you dicehorn, that bit took about an hour and half to type , lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Its Been raining outside hasnt it. indeed but hopefully it stops before dark as I have that unusual thing to do on here go fox shooting while the mass debates go on over dodgy bullet manufacture and how hornets are the doggies dangly bits for long range foxing as for why reduced loads etc are good for practice is beyond me, if I practice its going to be with the same load as I use quarry hunting as whats the point having to re zero before you go out and shoot anything. Edited August 27, 2012 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 indeed but hopefully it stops before dark as I have that unusual thing to do on here go fox shooting while the mass debates go on over dodgy bullet manufacture and how hornets are the doggies dangly bits for long range foxing as for why reduced loads etc are good for practice is beyond me, if I practice its going to be with the same load as I use quarry hunting as whats the point having to re zero before you go out and shoot anything. it dont have to even shoot to the same POI in practice, so why re-zero. 100 standers a week would do many a power of good, trust me many couldn't desern were thier zero was at 100yds off hand LOL. its slashing it down here and the kids are watching wizard of oz., i even sorted the rod cuboard and washed my wildfowling gunslip and that don't happen too often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafod Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 i was refering to using fired r/f cases and not pulling bullets from loaded rounds to use the case , sorry if i gave the impression that i was encourging anyone to pull bullets from rimfire cases , no,no,no not with a loaded r/f case and on no accounts to use a kinetic hammer to unload rimfire ammo i just want to clear that up before that impression goes any further . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Just stop being a tight **** and buy ready made bullet heads. If you could make bullets better than the manufacturers we would all be doing it. most people reload for accuracy some for cost some as a hobby but all strive to make a custom round made to fit your gun and to be far more accuratate than factory ammo. but if every bullet you make is not identical weight,mass, size with the same ballistic co they would be all over the place.. if you have a steady supply of lead weight it in and buy bullet heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafod Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 i know that quite a few of us UK (myself included in the not to distant past) shooters have bought all size dia bullets direct from suppliers in the states , simply because we could buy cheaper from the USA ( not so now ) or simply cant get them here in the UK but have any of you tried to buy reloading brass stateside , YOU CANNOT no american supplier will send reloading brass overseas, though strangly they will send brass shotgun magtec cases overseas apparently it has something to do with the american state dept placing trade export liecences on U S suppliers wishing to send rifle and pistol brass overseas which as you can imagine is very expensive propostion so that is why US suppliers wont send overseas unless that ruling has been recently changed in the last 3 months then i will stand corrected though the ruling was being challenged in the US courts so the moral to my thread on swaging , is that some time in the possible future bullets will be the next componant that will become restricted from being sent overseas , unless your an importer of coarse then you can hike the price ( just look at the prices at ****** uk not the cheapest place now imagine it in the future an eye watering prospect indeed ) then the proverbial **** will hit the fan and those £ 14.00 per 100 bullets that someone kindly pointed out eariler ( which i can see where he is coming from ) will treble in price , then how many of us could afford to carry on shooting , makes you think eh the purpose of my thead was to make people aware there may be another way to still shoot if the unthinkable happens in the future even though some people may well disagree with the question , the purpose behind the thread ,still remains would it be viable , maybe , maybe not , who knows it remains to be seen ( forget the corbin website for buying equipment but its usefull as it describes the basic,s behind the art of bullet swaging ) i totally respect everyones got a view on the issues of swaging bullets (not just the swaging of .224 bullets but other callibres as well ) is not everyones cup of tea ,but many of you will have to agree that where america leads the rest of the world will eventully follow so in the future it may well become the one way to keep shooting in the uncertain times in which we are living and the ever increasing price rises ( copper ,lead ,petrol , and the next big hike cereals your family loaf and your pint down the local with rise in price before christmas belive me ) that are affecting every accepect of our daily lives , these are just my personal views and i,m not endorsing any company connected to selling swaging equipment .or trying to influence anyone into swaging its that this is a reloading forum and as such is a valid question to ask reloading forum . andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 i was refering to using fired r/f cases and not pulling bullets from loaded rounds to use the case , sorry if i gave the impression that i was encourging anyone to pull bullets from rimfire cases , no,no,no not with a loaded r/f case and on no accounts to use a kinetic hammer to unload rimfire ammo i just want to clear that up before that impression goes any further . sorry for diverting the thread, i thought the idea of swaging the rimfire cases a bit crazy- though the whole idea of own bullet manufacture interesting and created the diversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Just stop being a tight **** and buy ready made bullet heads. If you could make bullets better than the manufacturers we would all be doing it. most people reload for accuracy some for cost some as a hobby but all strive to make a custom round made to fit your gun and to be far more accuratate than factory ammo. but if every bullet you make is not identical weight,mass, size with the same ballistic co they would be all over the place.. if you have a steady supply of lead weight it in and buy bullet heads I reload because it is cheaper, accuracy improvements over factory are a by product what makes you think you cant make better bullets than a factory? you make better complete rounds than the factory! whats the difference? there is a chap over on SD who made his own dies and uses .22lr and .22WMR cases to produce .224 up to 6.5mm jacketed soft point for normal use no reason at all they cant be run at normal velocities or be used on game with good accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Because your not making anything when reloading, your just assembling components like flat pack furniture. If you cast your own jacketed bullets and get a slightly thicker jacket on one side it throws the whole thing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 that is the point, you arent casting them you are individually swaging them. if anything the tolerances on a 50 round batch made individually are probably tighter than the 1000's coming off an assembly line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Actually there is a lot more that is possible with bullet swaging but cost is not generally a big advantage http://www.corbins.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majordisorder Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 And here's a great link to a DIY kit http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7783&hilit=swaging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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