David BASC Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 BASC has contacted candidates standing in the Police and Crime Commissioner elections to ask for their views on shooting and will be publishing the substance of replies to the letter on the BASC website to assist members in determining how they will vote. Those elected as Police and Crime Commissioners will have an influence on the delivery of firearms licensing services to the shooting community. This service will be included in the police plan and will feature in the police budget. Each of the candidates has been asked two questions: - if they support the private ownership and use of firearms in accordance with the current law. - if elected, whether they would be prepared to meet BASC for a briefing and discussion on firearms licensing services in their area. Despite the lack of publicity and information on these elections it is essential that the shooting community engages with its candidates and checks their stance on the laws governing our sport before voting. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Have you contacted every candidate for every force! Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Yes we have David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Sounds like a great idea I wonder how many will reply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Yes we have David Well done but I expect most of them have not a clue about firearms legislation of the role the police play in licensing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northamptonclay Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Any news yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiedenny Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 ? any update ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossett_hunter Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Here is a list of the candidates for your areas http://www.apccs.police.uk/page/pcc-candidates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well done but I expect most of them have not a clue about the role the police play. There, that's more like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 The current candidates are almost exclusively political party activists. That means they will slavishly follow their party line just like the others. Very few independents have shown any interest in the role. In similar situations voting choices are made to punish the current government. The odds are that the majority of Commissioners will be Labour party candidates. Party history shows that Labour will be submissive to the police and the Tories will be rather uncooperative and dismissive of the "plebs." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) the 2 candidates for for Dyfed/Powys are Christine Gwyther - Labour and Christopher Salmon-conservative,i've just googled Christine Gwyther and found out that she is a vegetarian , http://en.wikipedia....ristine_Gwyther andrew Edited October 21, 2012 by andrewluke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 the 2 candidates for for Dyfed/Powys are Christine Gwyther - Labour and Christopher Salmon-conservative,i've just googled Christine Gwyther and found out that she is a vegetarian , http://en.wikipedia....ristine_Gwyther andrew Whereas Christopher Salmon was raised on a farm, joined the army and served in NI, Kosovo and Iraq. I'm guessing he might get your vote Andrew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 The current candidates are almost exclusively political party activists. That means they will slavishly follow their party line just like the others. Very few independents have shown any interest in the role. In similar situations voting choices are made to punish the current government. The odds are that the majority of Commissioners will be Labour party candidates. Party history shows that Labour will be submissive to the police and the Tories will be rather uncooperative and dismissive of the "plebs." I agree. Many senior police officers are deeply unhappy about what they see, correctly in my view, as the politicisation of the police force. This is just another expensive layer of bureaucracy. Why not just directly elect Chief Constables? Perhaps politicians don't like the idea of police forces being directly accountable to the public in their force area without politicians having the whip hand? I'm wondering whether I ought to vote at all and legitimise this move...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I agree. Many senior police officers are deeply unhappy about what they see, correctly in my view, as the politicisation of the police force. This is just another expensive layer of bureaucracy. Why not just directly elect Chief Constables? Perhaps politicians don't like the idea of police forces being directly accountable to the public in their force area without politicians having the whip hand? I'm wondering whether I ought to vote at all and legitimise this move...? Indeed turnout is likely to be exceedingly low. Every "democratic" role they invent just ends up being yet another platform for the main parties to fight over. Another power grab and empire building exercise. Independently minded people, the ones you'd like to see there, aren't inclined to get involved. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :( Do you feel empowered yet? I don't Edited October 21, 2012 by Coolhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) My local labour candidate has this as his first sentence on his website: The Police Commissioner election on 15 November is for a new role virtually nobody asked for, few want and that has been organised in a way that means there is a serious risk of a poor turnout. Funny really. And has numerous press releases of him commenting on how the election should be scrapped. Police Commissioners will bring party politics into policing for the first time. Who knows what the consequences will be. Stumbling into politicising the police has got to be a bad idea I'm somewhat impressed by this, But as the same time he does have "-Labour" next to his name. Edited October 21, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 My own view is that the people best qualified to make decisions about policing are police officers, not politicians, and as only the major political parties have the money and the infrastructure needed for campaigning, all of the new commissioners will end up as politicians - maybe not this time round, but certainly in the future elections (but probably this one too). And having politicians deciding on policing priorities will give the police an excuse for not doing their jobs as well as they could/should. IMO, the real way forward is to improve management within the police, not to outsource the management. Full marks for effort to BASC, but it will achieve nothing because politicians always give political answers, not honest ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 The current candidates are almost exclusively political party activists. That means they will slavishly follow their party line just like the others. Very few independents have shown any interest in the role. That's because candidates have to post a £5,000 deposit, with a % vote threshold to avoid loss. So it was bound to be a party fest and difficult for individuals to stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have just emailed one of the candidates for South Wales ( Mike Baker - Independant) and asked him for his views on members of the public who legally use various types of firearms. It will be interesting to see what (if any) reply I get from Mr.Baker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Just e-mailed the following to all four candidates in my area: Dear XXX As a Gloucestershire voter I would like to ask you (and the other candidates) a couple of questions on an issue that is important to me, in advance of the forthcoming Police and Crime Commissioner elections. Do you support the right of individuals to lawfully own firearms, for sport or business? Will you do your best to ensure an efficient and effective firearms licensing department in Gloucestershire? The firearms department is staffed with professional , hard working individuals doing their best, but because of limited resources they are currently struggling to provide a good service to those who pay for it, and in some cases whose livelihood depends on it. You may or may not know that Gloucestershire has a thriving and diverse community of recreational and professional shooters, with numerous target rifle and clay pigeon clubs, hundreds of organised game shoots and less formal 'rough shoots'. In 2011 there were 10,504 shotgun certificate holders and 2460 firearm certificate holders in the county. Those who engage in these activities are demonstrably law abiding (they would not be granted a licence otherwise). Youngsters under the tutelage of experienced adults also learn to shoot in schools, cadets, scouts or informally with air rifles in gardens and farms. They learn safety, responsibility and a skill which requires discipline and focus, in which Britain is a Olympic gold medal winner. Applications and renewals for licences currently take an inordinate amount of time. Friends have had applications take 5 months or more and renewals submitted well in advance (several months) have not been processed before the old licence expires. In some instances this has left holders technically in illegal possession of firearms through no fault of their own. It also means they cannot purchase ammunition which in the case of professionals such as gamekeepers, pest controllers etc, may mean they are unable to do their job, affecting their livelihood. Another concern is one of public safety. A department that is under resourced and over worked may miss a vital piece of information which then allows an unsuitable applicant to obtain a licence. So to return to my original questions, Do you support the right of individuals to lawfully own firearms, for sport or business? What will you do to ensure the firearms licensing department is adequately resourced to allow it to both ensure public safety and provide a good service to law abiding shooters? Regards 'Blunderbuss' Edited October 22, 2012 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Good letter - but as I said in my earlier reply, these people are politicians and they will simply make vague promises. It's obvious from your email what you want them to say, and they will say it. How will their replies help you to decide who to vote for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Good letter - but as I said in my earlier reply, these people are politicians and they will simply make vague promises. It's obvious from your email what you want them to say, and they will say it. How will their replies help you to decide who to vote for? Whilst I share your cynicism (up to a point) I think the answers may be illuminating. The wording of their answers may indicate whether they actually know anything about the subject, have researched it at all or are merely voicing platitudes for a vote. Also, I have asked them something concrete about a policing issue including allocation of resources, so it may at least cause them to consider how they will tackle it against competing priorities in a tough financial climate. I shall be keeping the replies so if they tell blatant porkies to win a vote then backtrack - they (and the press) will hear about it! I am lucky in that I have an independent candidate who is an experienced ex copper who wont be dancing to a party political tune. On the face of it, he is currently more likely to get my vote, but I don't know what his stance is on this. I'm not a fan of this process, it's an unneeded additional layer of bureaucracy and a distraction for the police. And yes, i fear it will attract the wrong sorts as a stepping stone to political office. However, we may as well use it to our advantage. As there is huge (and largely understandable) apathy about these elections, those that do vote can have a far greater influence than they would otherwise. Surely if we can influence them to try to get a grip of the licensing departments, that will be a good thing? My expectations are well and truly managed though :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossett_hunter Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Seen on the news today that they will get paid £65000 to £100000. They go on about cutbacks give the power to the police for them to decide what to spend there budgets on not some over paid MP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Seen on the news today that they will get paid £65000 to £100000. They go on about cutbacks give the power to the police for them to decide what to spend there budgets on not some over paid MP. I think I read that the salary will be "in excess of £100,000"No doubt plus expenses, and in addition the successful candidates will have an office, staff (including a financially qualified person) and no doubt all the trimmings. Call that £2m each, or £84m in total, at a conservative guess. If that kind of money is available it would have paid for a lot of extra front line police officers, and they would have actually made a worthwhile contribution... I am lucky in that I have an independent candidate who is an experienced ex copper who wont be dancing to a party political tune. On the face of it, he is currently more likely to get my vote, but I don't know what his stance is on this. I do take your point, but what will your experienced ex copper know about campaigning? What resources will he have? Does he have any real chance against political party machines? I'd like to be wrong on this, just as I'd like to be wrong on a lot of things that involve politicians, but unfortunately I'm too old to be anything but seriously cynical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 UPDATE: I have received a reply from Michael Baker who hopes to represent the South Wales area. He stated that he used to be a Firearms Officer, and has no objection to people who legally own firearms. He does no belong to any political party. I think he's going to get my vote. Steve. EDIT: When I sent an email to him, it was sent in such a way that I was 'against' guns etc. I wanted to see if he would agree with my views on 'all these guns in people's hands'. but to be fair to him, he made the above statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Two ****s Prescott has put his head up as we know. So let me see, he assaulted a member of the public ( yes he was provoked but had we done that we would have been arrested) and he can't keep it zipped. Moral compass and behaviour come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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