jason kaye Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hay Jason you have gone all quiet my little friend has your mum called you off the computer for your tea!! Lol Royal Just finished my tea mate,it was lovely mum thanks ,anyway can't be bothered to trawl about for a load of fantasy,what bugs me is ,if you had done all of what you say you've done (very,very doubtful) you would have had the brains not to post bulls**t,of "I've shot this that and the other" whilst I was in the marines,just don't sit right with me pal,just because you attended a day out with your carer at some royal marines display,doesn't mean you were there mate does it ? Jase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Simple question do the people saying that its OK to shoot prisoners think that soldiers should have no rules of engagement and do what ever they want. That's the logic of what they are saying. In ww2 they could have joined the Waffen-SS they had similar views. And forget the BS people not having a opinion unless they were in combat. I could make up BS about units i was in and wars fought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) If I told you what the lads currently working out there think of these scumbags then where would be up roar! But unless you have been there it's very hard to judge the lads and lasses that are. I'm not condoning the killings of innocent people but theses are insurgents (proven) and they put them selves in a position were the lads can and do have to use legal force against them! Look at the recent uproar how people want the chance to defend there property if a burglar comes in to your house! Edited October 15, 2012 by Marine1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Just finished my tea mate,it was lovely mum thanks ,anyway can't be bothered to trawl about for a load of fantasy,what bugs me is ,if you had done all of what you say you've done (very,very doubtful) you would have had the brains not to post bulls**t,of "I've shot this that and the other" whilst I was in the marines,just don't sit right with me pal,just because you attended a day out with your carer at some royal marines display,doesn't mean you were there mate does it ? Jase. All the info you need is there mate, I suggest you look it up after all the **** you have given me then appologise on this forum once you have and actually show you have a set and can appologise when your wrong! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason kaye Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 All the info you need is there mate, I suggest you look it up after all the **** you have given me then appologise on this forum once you have and actually show you have a set and can appologise when your wrong! Royal I've no need to appologise,I thought everyone is entitled to their opinion ,and in my opinion youre full of it mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I've no need to appologise,I thought everyone is entitled to their opinion ,and in my opinion youre full of it mate. It's horrible being wrong isn't it! Do you need a cuddle!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason kaye Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 It's horrible being wrong isn't it! Do you need a cuddle!! Lol Wouldn't know mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroku_Dave Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 All the info you need is there mate, I suggest you look it up after all the **** you have given me then appologise on this forum once you have and actually show you have a set and can appologise when your wrong! Royal Whatever service you claim to have given you still have the attitude of a Crow! Was it an admin discharge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Whatever service you claim to have given you still have the attitude of a Crow! Was it an admin discharge? No mate 12 months notice! I left as I was doing back to back tours and it's the laws of adverages out there now! It's a matter of when rather than if! I'm now doing maritime stuff and have been since leaving in 2009! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What we think doesn't matter. What a Court thinks, does matter. Everything else on here is peacocking BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Quote. I'm not condoning the killings of innocent people but theses are insurgents (proven) and they put them selves in a position were the lads can and do have to use legal force against them. No one is disagreeing with this. Its the shooting of wounded prisoners no longer a threat, if that's what happened some think is wrong. How can the argument be made that its wrong for the Taleban to shoot prisoners but OK for some in the British army to. What we think doesn't matter. What a Court thinks, does matter. Everything else on here is peacocking BS. Does that include your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What we think doesn't matter. What a Court thinks, does matter. Never a truer word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What Royal is saying is that he believes soldiers should play judge jury and executioner with prisoners. I hope he didn't act on that view all those years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroku_Dave Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) No mate 12 months notice! I left as I was doing back to back tours and it's the laws of adverages out there now! It's a matter of when rather than if! I'm now doing maritime stuff and have been since leaving in 2009! Big bucks!!! Anyway, I have no doubt you were military and I understand you're sentiments as its the Royal Marines in the limelight here for all the wrong reasons. I hope and pray they are found not guilty!! You have to see our point though, if we sanction Murder then why not rape? Theft? Torture? That's not the way we do things and if we do we lower ourselves to the standards of those we fight. This has been an ethos of the military for years and is a reassurance to those we seek to protect. Edited October 15, 2012 by Miroku_Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What we think doesn't matter. What a Court thinks, does matter. Everything else on here is peacocking BS. Also true. If they are found guilty I'm happy due process has been followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Big bucks!!! Anyway, I have no doubt you were military and I understand you're sentiments as its the Royal Marines in the limelight here for all the wrong reasons. I hope and pray they are found not guilty!! You have to see our point though, if we sanction Murder then why not rape? Theft? Torture? That's not the way we do things and if we do we lower ourselves to the standards of those we fight. This has been an ethos of the military for years and is a reassurance to those we seek to protect. Exactly. It's the difference between us and them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't think they executed him as far as I can see so there inot guilty of that but perhaps they didn't help him as much as they should have and I understand that they should. According to military law you should always help the person most injured first if they are friend or foe! I will be completely honest here if I had two casualties in front of me and one was a mate and I knew his wife and kids and on the other side of the road there was an insurgent injured and he was the one who just shot my mate don't get me wrong I would help him but I certainly wouldn't rush to him and I certainly would not attend to him before my mate! Now if Im wrong for thinking that then I'm bad obviously but who would you honestly help if you actually thought about it? Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I know what your saying Royal and i have the same feelings,however we both know the first person we would administer first aid to would/should be the one with the most life threatening injuries,freind or foe thats what is taught using the battlefied aide memoire,priority of casualty, TRIAGE is the key word here BB Edited October 15, 2012 by Bluebarrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't think they executed him as far as I can see so there inot guilty of that but perhaps they didn't help him as much as they should have and I understand that they should. According to military law you should always help the person most injured first if they are friend or foe! I will be completely honest here if I had two casualties in front of me and one was a mate and I knew his wife and kids and on the other side of the road there was an insurgent injured and he was the one who just shot my mate don't get me wrong I would help him but I certainly wouldn't rush to him and I certainly would not attend to him before my mate! Now if Im wrong for thinking that then I'm bad obviously but who would you honestly help if you actually thought about it? Royal Is that what happened was one of the Marines injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm not asking for that at all and if any member of the armed forces killed an innocent civilian and I mean (innocent) then they should get the book thrown at them but these scum bags don't even deserve the extra round to put them out of there misery! They kill innocent women and children on a regular day to day basis and blame it on religion which is complete rubbish! They are criminals and terrorists and should be delt with as such! And if you want to know if I shot any whilst on duty the answer is yes, did I feel any remorse NO! I once ran over an innocent rabbit though and felt guilty as hell! Royal I'm not asking for that at all and if any member of the armed forces killed an innocent civilian and I mean (innocent) then they should get the book thrown at them but these scum bags don't even deserve the extra round to put them out of there misery! They kill innocent women and children on a regular day to day basis and blame it on religion which is complete rubbish! They are criminals and terrorists and should be delt with as such! And if you want to know if I shot any whilst on duty the answer is yes, did I feel any remorse NO! I once ran over an innocent rabbit though and felt guilty as hell! Royal Are you for real, that is quite some statement to make on a public forum and then to openly put your service numbers x 2 on said forum date and time served after saying that in this day and age it is not sensible to put mil pics on facebook. To top it all off you then tell us what you are into now. You have to be having a laugh, I think that until the full facts are known about this situation then it would be better to not speculate as to what has happened no matter what experience the various members have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroku_Dave Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Do you think it might be time to edit and lock this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Nah these threads are great - they are like a tool roll call and are there to remind us that not everyone on here has a lift that goes all the way to the top floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason kaye Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Nah these threads are great - they are like a tool roll call and are there to remind us that not everyone on here has a lift that goes all the way to the top floor. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) What a ridiculous thing to say. The British military represent the people of Britain and if they have even out committing murder then they must be brought to justice. But still, we are British, and we should still even look after the wounded, regardless of what the 'Enemy' may do to us?! so basically the Geneva convention needs ripping up? Also wanted to add that we do have an obligation under Geneva Convention regardless of wither or not you think they are scum (I personally agree fully with the scum description) that: Articles 13 to 16 state that prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met Like it or lump it our forces MUST abide by the Geneva Convention or suffer the consequences! The alternative is to make ourselves as bad as the scumbag insurgents! I’m going to step in and defend this chap, what makes us different from the scumbags we fight is that we abide by the rules. We do not distinguish between the enemy and our friends when treating casualties; we treat the neediest first. You have to see our point though, if we sanction Murder then why not rape? Theft? Torture? That's not the way we do things and if we do we lower ourselves to the standards of those we fight. This has been an ethos of the military for years and is a reassurance to those we seek to protect. Why are people insistent that the British Army doesn't do this kind of thing? Soldiers are an extension of the state, the state has been immoral in its conduct with regards to the welfare of people over the last 120 years. During the Boer War the policy Kitchener used meant many civilians were forced into Concentration Camps. Over 20,000 women and children perished in them. Jumping to the Second World War the SS may have committed many atrocities but so did the Allies. Bomber Command bombed Dresden which was of dubious military value, approximately 25,000 civilians were killed. In the aftermath of the end of the second world war it is alleged that the allies deliberately starved German POW's and up to a million perished. Geneva convention anyone? Were any of the allied airmen charged? After the first Gulf War Britain supported sanctions against Iraq which lasted from 1990 to 2003. Unicef estimated 500,000 Iraqi children died as a result. "Denis Halliday was appointed United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator in Baghdad, Iraq as of 1 September 1997, at the Assistant Secretary-General level. In October 1998 he resigned after a 34 year career with the UN in order to have the freedom to criticise the sanctions regime, saying "I don't want to administer a programme that satisfies the definition of genocide". Is this the upstanding moral highground we Brits like to think of? Then we invaded their country, illegally, on the pretext of WMD. Estimates range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 unnecessary deaths. Again, the finest hour of the British State...... So if others look to us for moral fortitude then the bar is set pretty low....... I pity these soliders. They've been sent to fight an unwinnable war with budgetary cuts leading to the British Army's historic legacy of poor equipment, are given a set of rules that must be pretty difficult to administer when the pressure is on fighting an invisible enemy that can fight with impunity and then they are being judged by armchair experts. I'm not surprised it happens and I am surprised it doesn't happen more. Am I bothered? Not in the slightest. Move on, nothing will change. Edited October 16, 2012 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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