digger Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I should have read the full report before posting. I am no expert on high pressure armed situations so cant comment on how that feels. I cant get my head round a piece of card dictating a soldiers thoughts and possibly circumventing years of training for fear of a civvie banging them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I think posts like this should only really be open to ex or serving military as somebody who stacks shelves in tesco's or works as the local school janitor havnt got a clue! People can only be professional for so long before they realise how much of a bunch of cowards and ****holes these people really are. What sort of people fire at troops whilst surrounded by school kids or get their women to carry their weapons for them. If they have a big enough set to kill coalition forces, women and children they should except its going to catch up with them every so often! If what they beleive is true and there going to a better place after death then surely these soldiers should be thanked? Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) I think posts like this should only really be open to ex or serving military What a ridiculous thing to say. The British military represent the people of Britain and if they have even out committing murder then they must be brought to justice. Edited October 14, 2012 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) I think posts like this should only really be open to ex or serving military as somebody who stacks shelves in tesco's or works as the local school janitor havnt got a clue! People can only be professional for so long before they realise how much of a bunch of cowards and axxholes these people really are. What sort of people fire at troops whilst surrounded by school kids or get their women to carry their weapons for them. If they have a big enough set to kill coalition forces, women and children they should except its going to catch up with them every so often! If what they beleive is true and there going to a better place after death then surely these soldiers should be thanked? Royal So you think we should censor who can voice there opinions. Edited October 14, 2012 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I think it is strange that some members will quote sharia law and middle ages when dealing with Taliban et al, yet are quite happy to back similar middle aged behaviour. And before I`m asked, yeah I have been in high stress battle situations. I have not quoted sharia law.....would not know where to start, the point I was making was that the taliban and the likes of al queda e.g. have this as there ultimate aim (and the world had better wake up to it PDQ). Nor do I condone "similar middle aged behaviour" from others, it is yet to be proven if these RM's have done anything at all at odds with the "rules of engagement" Ordance.. I believe no credance at all can be given to whatever arguments the nazis put forward for their behavior or their atrocities, they were after(those that were captured) the end of the war and waiting for Nuremberg facing the rope. They would have said anything to avoid this. Henry D How about the Americam GI's (and no doubt other nationals) who summarily put against a wall in the death camps the likes of the toten kopf ss and blew them away, no trial no judgements just human reaction..................in a high stress situation, and no I have never been in a high stress battle scenario nor would I have ever wanted to be, too young and later on too old. I have however worked for the thick end of 50 years in very stressful jobs including off shore commercial fishing. There's stress and there's stress. Someone said he thinks this thread should be left to ex forces (heroes) so I am gone. See you all later on hopefully a much lighter theme.. ATB Bri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I think posts like this should only really be open to ex or serving military as somebody who stacks shelves in tesco's or works as the local school janitor havnt got a clue! People can only be professional for so long before they realise how much of a bunch of cowards and axxholes these people really are. What sort of people fire at troops whilst surrounded by school kids or get their women to carry their weapons for them. If they have a big enough set to kill coalition forces, women and children they should except its going to catch up with them every so often! If what they beleive is true and there going to a better place after death then surely these soldiers should be thanked? Royal It happened in the Falklands 3 Para Mnt Longdon, but because the internet was'nt available for the civi's who like to chuck their opinion in, nothing came of it, and the Uk was'nt as PC as it is now! And i wonder how many of the people on here placing their 'comments' regarding the Royals actions have been in a situation such as A'ghan' or Iraq, and have lost friends/family to these cowardly weasels, the Royals lost 23 comrades and untold casulties on that tour, and will have conducted 1,000's of patrols almost all resulting in a TIC or Strike of some. OUT! Ratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) I think posts like this should only really be open to ex or serving military as somebody who stacks shelves in tesco's or works as the local school janitor havnt got a clue! People can only be professional for so long before they realise how much of a bunch of cowards and axxholes these people really are. What sort of people fire at troops whilst surrounded by school kids or get their women to carry their weapons for them. If they have a big enough set to kill coalition forces, women and children they should except its going to catch up with them every so often! If what they beleive is true and there going to a better place after death then surely these soldiers should be thanked? Royal It happened in the Falklands 3 Para Mnt Longdon, but because the internet was'nt available for the civi's who like to chuck their opinion in, nothing came of it, and the Uk was'nt as PC as it is now! And i wonder how many of the people on here placing their 'comments' regarding the Royals actions have been in a situation such as A'ghan' or Iraq, and have lost friends/family to these cowardly weasels, the Royals lost 23 comrades and untold casulties on that tour, and will have conducted 1,000's of patrols almost all resulting in a TIC or Strike of some. OUT! Ratus Addressing a potential murder through the court martial process is nothing to do with political correctness or lack of it. Edited October 14, 2012 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbers Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Just wondering how you guys would act if we were invaded? We deem the place a theater of war, but it is these peoples home and we are not invited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 People just are not getting it. Just because your enemy behaves in a certain way doesn't mean that you can or should behave the same. If you lower yourself to there standards how can you claim to be any better. I can see how under stress things like this can happen but that doesn't make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbers Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Spot on Ordnance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Almost gone, one last reply:- Ratus I do not doubt that what you are saying is totally correct, I seem to remember similar things happening in Vietnam. However I am a tad upset at being classed (globally) as a ******** Tesco shelf stacker or school janitor. I doubt if we have had any such people posting on this topic but I could well be wrong. People whoever they are, what ever they do have a right of opinion and the right to post it here if they are members. End of............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 People just are not getting it. Just because your enemy behaves in a certain way doesn't mean that you can or should behave the same. If you lower yourself to there standards how can you claim to be any better. I can see how under stress things like this can happen but that doesn't make it right. Can You?? I don't know your background, but unless you've done a tour out there, away from family etc.. not knowing what the day will bring, you know something will happen, but when you can't, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 It looks like people are arguing cross-purposes here. It looks like everyone but Royal, Digger and Sprackles agree that due process should be followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Ratus I do not doubt that what you are saying is totally correct, I seem to remember similar things happening in Vietnam. However I am a tad upset at being classed (globally) as a ******** Tesco shelf stacker or school janitor. I doubt if we have had any such people posting on this topic but I could well be wrong. People whoever they are, what ever they do have a right of opinion and the right to post it here if they are members. End of............ The shelves don't stack themselves and schools don't clean themselves either, some people have to do these jobs to survive, your point?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Marine Im sorry mate but your response is just stupid mate! Folks cant comment unless they have served! What a load of bull! Suppose we better start rounding up all those Police threads and start telling the members of the public they cant have an opinion as well?? Sure our troops are putting their lives on the line every day they are in these combat zones, and I for one am both proud of them and glad they are willing to do so. BUT I expect them to act within their rules of engagement OR they are not proffesional soldiers IMO and then are lowering themselves to the scum they are fighting. Yes mistakes happen, but you dont mistakenly murder someone! Loads of folks work within high stress work environments, there are many different types of stress one can be exposed too, being a soldier aint the only career where turning up for work that day can be your last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Guys it came across slightly wrong in the fact that yes it's a public forum and you can say what you want, what I was trying to get across was unless you have been in situations like that you comments can't really be backed up by any evidence or real hand experiences. Because of this what ever true "civvies" say doesnt really count for anything in my opinion. As it currently stands when on tour your hands are so tied its the equivalent of two football teams having a game of football and only one team (them) being given a football. At some point in that match and after being 10 - nil down the team without a ball (coalition forces) are going to get annoyed at chasing the ball round and may throw a couple of tackles in which may upset them or even injure a couple. Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 So to clarify your happy for you and your lads to work outwith the rules of engagement then Royal?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty7247 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I think we should await and see what happens from this report. There is a video, showing the Marines talking about what to do with said injured insurgent, then the video finishs? Subsequently said insugent obviously dies from his wounds. If anything, it should be manslaughter. Im not sure how they can charge them with murder, say after a contact, they find him injured, the played by the rules of engagement, and he was obviously injured during the firefight. They obviously choose not to tend to his injureies, and he died. I can see it from both sides, The Marines have lost alot of guys, the heat of battle is incrediable. I belive the rules of Engagement should be changed to reflect the enemy they are facing. But still, we are British, and we should still even look after the wounded, regardless of what the 'Enemy' may do to us?! P.S Im not sure what i would have done in a similar situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Because of this what ever true "civvies" say doesnt really count for anything in my opinion. So the people who the forces represent can't comment on unprofessional or illegal behaviour. What an odd line argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Its a disgrace they are even considering prosecuting The **** our troops have to put up with every day from those animals They allowed one of them to die what a crying shame next its family will be sueing the MOD for the murder of their innocent son Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 so basically the Geneva convention needs ripping up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 So the people who the forces represent can't comment on unprofessional or illegal behaviour. What an odd line argument. I was in the marines for 10 years and not once did I represent arm chair critics back In the UK. I was there making sure that my mates either side of me didn't get killed by one of them scum bags. I dont expect non-military people to understand but I guarantee that every ex or serving service person will back up my comment above and the reason for going out to these hell holes. Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I was in the marines for 10 years and not once did I represent arm chair critics back In the UK. I was there making sure that my mates either side of me didn't get killed by one of them scum bags. I dont expect non-military people to understand but I guarantee that every ex or serving service person will back up my comment above and the reason for going out to these hell holes. Royal You've still missed the point. By the sounds of it you believe that soldiers should be outside of the law. As a former serving soldier I would have thought you would want to separate yourself from those who allegedly have gone too far and committed a murder. War is not carte blanche for killing anyone in any circumstances as you please. The rules of engagement are there for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 The law as it applies to civvies is one thing, to apply the same thinking from the comfort of your safe little chair away from the pointy end of a bullet is another. Get rid of the SA80...bring back the SLR, less wounded to worry about then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I dont disagree with what they did and I dont think they should be put on trial for it, and when I was in I probably would have done the same especially as the media have reported it as an "insurgent". The only thing I would have done differently is not film it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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