brettguise Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hey guys, My labs 14/15 weeks now she is perfect on Sit and Recall with hand signal, voice and whistle. She will also Sit and stay at a long distance. I have let her roam and blown the sit/stop whistle and she will stop. I have sit her up and recalled her with a stop and then finished the recall and she is doing all that perfectly. The only thing she seems to get cautious with is being told to sit and stay and then when I return to praise as I get close ish to her she lies down like she has done wrong but I reassure and give lots of praise. Should I start the stay again and go back to a short distance? Just wondering what else I can be doing. I haven't done any heel work or tried to give her too many commands just throwing the commands sit and recall into different situations. Cheers for any advice given. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 its 14/15 weeks old??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just turning 15 I think this sunday but it may have been last sunday, time flys you forget the dates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy69 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I wouldnt be that for on with a 15 week old puppy. By that stage I would be working on the sit say, maybe stop by voice commands not with hand or whistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Im following the gun dog training made easy book but the next step is 6 months with heelwork and gun sound. Should I carry on with basic obedience? From day one I introduced the whistle at feeding times and within a week she had sit perfect straight away so I started introducing the whistle. Its gone from there really. I haven't pushed her or made anything difficult its all been during play shes just keen to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hand, whistle and voice command for sit, can be learnt quickly. Sounds like your doing well. I would remain where you are at the moment, introduce heal and to sit when you stop walking do this for a week then introduce a thrown retrieve from her being sat at heal. Take your time with retrieves and training keep it all fun and don't do anymore than 15 mins formal training a day at this age is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc'y marc Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 The only thing she seems to get cautious with is being told to sit and stay and then when I return to praise as I get close ish to her she lies down like she has done wrong but I reassure and give lots of praise. I think this is happen due to you stoping then calling then stoping then calling the dog in to much. As when telling it to sit and stay the dog then thinks you are going to call it in but not the case you are then walking up to the dog so it then thinks it has done wrong. This happend to me. To much over training at this age. Good luck. It will turn out good if you dont over do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Hand, whistle and voice command for sit, can be learnt quickly. Sounds like your doing well. I would remain where you are at the moment, introduce heal and to sit when you stop walking do this for a week then introduce a thrown retrieve from her being sat at heal. Take your time with retrieves and training keep it all fun and don't do anymore than 15 mins formal training a day at this age is my opinion. She sits when we stop wherever I go already that seems to have come naturally but I will enforce that. Ill leave heal for another week or two and start to get that sorted. At the minute I keep her keen with any play retrieve and tend to go for a walk with a tennis ball get it out she gets excited I throw it once possibly twice if she was really enthused and then pocket it and continue walking and will throw it in a different location. sometimes If I recall her in and she comes I praise and throw the ball as a reward. I only throw the ball a maximum of say 5 / 6 times on a walk I never let her get bored always make sure shes ready to chase again and then cut the fun so shes keen the next time. The only thing she seems to get cautious with is being told to sit and stay and then when I return to praise as I get close ish to her she lies down like she has done wrong but I reassure and give lots of praise. I think this is happen due to you stoping then calling then stoping then calling the dog in to much. As when telling it to sit and stay the dog then thinks you are going to call it in but not the case you are then walking up to the dog so it then thinks it has done wrong. This happend to me. To much over training at this age. Good luck. It will turn out good if you dont over do it. I have only stopped her on the recall about 3 or 4 times since Ive had her. I will stop the stopping on recall for the minute. I can stop her when she is mooching about and she sits and then I walk to her and she doesn't go down on the floor. Maybe those 3 or 4 times has knocked her confidence on the stay and I go back to her. I can cut any stops incorporated in a recall for the next few weeks at least. Will that help do you think? Edited October 23, 2012 by brettguise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Too much to soon, but that’s just my opinion. I just ask a pup to sit when I feed it and do the recall. Apart from that I just let it grow up, play and socialize them until they are 6 or7 month old depending on the dog. Really can’t see the rush. Work is ment to be play for a dog. How many times have you seen post on here saying my six month old pup has stopped retrieving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Too much to soon, but that’s just my opinion. I just ask a pup to sit when I feed it and do the recall. Apart from that I just let it grow up, play and socialize them until they are 6 or7 month old depending on the dog. Really can’t see the rush. Work is ment to be play for a dog. How many times have you seen post on here saying my six month old pup has stopped retrieving. I have a pup that I bred in May and that`s all I`ve done, sit before feeding and some recall. This is the most relaxed I`ve been with a pup and I think I`ve got a better relationship with this one than the others I`ve trained. I`m not critisizing the OP as things seem to be going really well for him but don`t` rush. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I spoke to a trainer before I had her and he said he does not start training any dog until its 8 months old, I considered that a long time! I see what everyone is saying that's why I don't want to ruin the dog, mixed opinions on time scales of training here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Too much to soon, but that’s just my opinion. I just ask a pup to sit when I feed it and do the recall. Apart from that I just let it grow up, play and socialize them until they are 6 or7 month old depending on the dog. Really can’t see the rush. Work is ment to be play for a dog. How many times have you seen post on here saying my six month old pup has stopped retrieving. Says it all, if you do too much too soon it could all go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETO Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Too much to soon, but that’s just my opinion. I just ask a pup to sit when I feed it and do the recall. Apart from that I just let it grow up, play and socialize them until they are 6 or7 month old depending on the dog. Really can’t see the rush. Work is ment to be play for a dog. How many times have you seen post on here saying my six month old pup has stopped retrieving. We've had our disagreements in the past but I fully agree with you. My pup is 8 months and will sit, wait, recall (verbal and whistle) and retrieve dummies and the odd bit of cold game when I take some out. She also twirls - but thats nothing to do with gundog work. I have yet to keep up with the heelwork (I'm lazy because when we go for a walk they're onlead for a total of 20 minutes) As well as heel work I am teaching "to hand" and sit to a whistle. I'm always going over basics with her. We introduced gun shot last Saturday in the form of a battle renactment.. well when you don't shoot yourself you use what you can get. Just enjoy the pup for a while then get on with it. I never did more than 3 retrieves with my pup until she was 6 months old. Teach her the basics. Sit, wait, down (optional I guess, depends if you need it) and heel. However; my 2 year old was learning more than basics at 14 weeks old. Thats because he was never planned to be a gundog. We only started training as a gun dog at about 9/10 months - a year old. Before that he was being trained up as an obedience dog. Edited October 23, 2012 by ETO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Every dogs different, some learn faster than others. Only move on when the dogs ready, not when someone, or a book, says so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 They do anything at 15wks because they have no independant mind. You will be busy when that pup reaches adolesance and it thinks "nope i should rather be doing ........ instead". take it easy train but keep it fun. Stop and stay aint fun. what you have now is conditioning without mature independance of thought from the dog, just take a step back and keep to a good fast recall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Interesting thoughts, Kent. Don't know about "independent mind," but research has shown that a puppy's brain at 8 weeks is 90 percent the size of what it'll be when a full-sized dog. That makes it a good sponge for soaking up training. And with a slight twist to actionpigeon's comment - Work is meant to be play for a dog. - that you can make the pup think of work as play, and continue cultivating that dependent mindset - through rewards and lots of praise - you probably won't burn out a pup early or overextend its training. "Stop and stay ain't fun" - true enough but the reward that follows goes beyond fun to the real gratification for a pup - filling its tummy. But only when you permit it. And dogs being creatures of habit, like the rest of us, the early training - if continued and with consistency - ain't likely to be overridden or overuled by the "independent mind." MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Too much to soon, but that’s just my opinion. I just ask a pup to sit when I feed it and do the recall. Apart from that I just let it grow up, play and socialize them until they are 6 or7 month old depending on the dog. Really can’t see the rush. Work is ment to be play for a dog. How many times have you seen post on here saying my six month old pup has stopped retrieving. Yeah I have to agree I do very basic obedience up to 6 months fun play socialising etc then start the more advance stuff from then on but all dogs are different and I'm sure if pushed many dogs could be a lot further along in there training........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I spoke to a trainer before I had her and he said he does not start training any dog until its 8 months old, I considered that a long time! I see what everyone is saying that's why I don't want to ruin the dog, mixed opinions on time scales of training here. When I started with gun dogs the breeder of my first pup said something similar to me. I took him back at six months as arranged and the trainer was upset as the dog was relatively wild. I told him what he had said and he replied that he meant the more advanced stuff. Don`t take everything told you literally as I did, think for yourself, every dog is different and training isn`t` like painting by numbers. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Every dogs different, some learn faster than others. Only move on when the dogs ready, not when someone, or a book, says so. Agree, move at the dogs pace, the trick is not to make a lesson to intense or repeat the excercise to much in a day. ATB, Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Im taking all this on board and I dont know if it looks like I am taking the dog out for formal training lessons and hammering the dog with commands over and over again. For example today I took my pup down the canal for a walk I let her off and let her run around and after 5 minutes of walking Ill throw in a recall "Here" she comes and gets lots of praise. I continue walking for 5 minutes and ill pull out a ball and give it a throw with a fetch and when she has it ill recall take it from her gently praise and then continue walking. I don't stand on a field and do all those things over and over again I just throw in the basics whilst on a walk with the dog. I took some of the advice I read yesterday and only used voice commands and left the whistle at home on this mornings walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Interesting thoughts, Kent. Don't know about "independent mind," but research has shown that a puppy's brain at 8 weeks is 90 percent the size of what it'll be when a full-sized dog. That makes it a good sponge for soaking up training. And with a slight twist to actionpigeon's comment - [/color][/size] - that you can make the pup think of work as play, and continue cultivating that dependent mindset - through rewards and lots of praise - you probably won't burn out a pup early or overextend its training. "Stop and stay ain't fun" - true enough but the reward that follows goes beyond fun to the real gratification for a pup - filling its tummy. But only when you permit it. And dogs being creatures of habit, like the rest of us, the early training - if continued and with consistency - ain't likely to be overridden or overuled by the "independent mind." MG Brain size and how its used are totally different. It is now published that the human teenage brain actually goes through a re-wiring process during adolesence- i 100% believe very similar occurs in dogs. Now if someone was to live in a country were early testing was caried out........ puppy play training based on condtioning works but serious training sticks later on far better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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