Tim Kelly Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Most shooters aren't George Digweed (in fact all but one aren't) and a heavier load of larger shot will kill better than a load of smaller shot if you don't centre pattern the bird every time. I find 5s give more positive kills than sixes. Haven't used 7s for years, and stopped using them because I had too many runners. If you're an amazing shot you can kill things miles away as you put the centre of the pattern on them every time (Digweed shooting crows on Fieldsports TV springs to mind). It probably doesn't matter much what size shot you use if you're that accurate. The rest of us need some help. Edited November 6, 2012 by Tim Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Most shooters aren't George Digweed (in fact all but one aren't) and a heavier load of larger shot will kill better than a load of smaller shot if you don't centre pattern the bird every time. I find 5s give more positive kills than sixes. Haven't used 7s for years, and stopped using them because I had too many runners. If you're an amazing shot you can kill things miles away as you put the centre of the pattern on them every time (Digweed shooting crows on Fieldsports TV springs to mind). It probably doesn't matter much what size shot you use if you're that accurate. The rest of us need some help. In most of digweeds videos, he uses gamebore black gold 30g 5s, he also switches to 5s on his 100+ yrd record clay shot. It doesn't matter if your the best shot in the world, small shot does not hold sufficient killing energy at range. You will get the odd hero saying they've killed 50 yard + birds with clay loads, but their 50yrds is most people's 35yrds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 There you go again with saying clay load. Have a look you will be surprised how many GAME cartridges are available in 7's I realise most people on here don't see people game shooting but early season with a fair mix of partridges they do work well in a lot of situations where 50 yard birds mean you are poaching your neighbours birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) There you go again with saying clay load. Have a look you will be surprised how many GAME cartridges are available in 7's I realise most people on here don't see people game shooting but early season with a fair mix of partridges they do work well in a lot of situations where 50 yard birds mean you are poaching your neighbours birds. I'm sure in some situations they are. I have tried clay loads, pigeon loads, game loads etc, many times, and that's what's formed my opinion. Edited November 7, 2012 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 the situations relate to tight choked light game guns hence a lot of shells such as Hull High pheasant, Three crowns, Gamebore Supergame Hi Bird, Traditional game etc etc are all available in 7's and similar named shells from most manufacturers. What I can say is when you watch people shooting decent birds with them its always surprising to pick up the case and see what they are using. The fact they can take decent height birds with them suggests there isn't a lack of energy there. The difference in most situations is psychological until you talk really high birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) the situations relate to tight choked light game guns hence a lot of shells such as Hull High pheasant, Three crowns, Gamebore Supergame Hi Bird, Traditional game etc etc are all available in 7's and similar named shells from most manufacturers. What I can say is when you watch people shooting decent birds with them its always surprising to pick up the case and see what they are using. The fact they can take decent height birds with them suggests there isn't a lack of energy there. The difference in most situations is psychological until you talk really high birds. Are those UK or continental 7s? I think cartridges should have the shot size in mm printed on them. Edited November 7, 2012 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I use Epson; brings out the colours in the feathers. :lol: I load 28g #6 for Pheasant and rabbits! 24g - 28g #7 for pigeon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Are those UK or continental 7s? I think cartridges should have the shot size in mm printed on them. does it really matter the fact is every manufacturer offers a game load in 7's so someone is using them, rather than your calling everything in 7's a clay load it was purely pointing out that was bunkum and for a fair bit of driven shooting they actually work quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I have found sticking to a single type of cartridge helps consistency and I use no 6 shot in Eley VIP 30/32gs. I am sure another cartridge like 'Black Gold' is equally good but I've shot VIP's since I started and its a confidence thing - I know they work for me. So - choose one and practice 30 gms is a good weight of shot 5/6. 5's allow for the odd duck when you are out too. Clear pigeon 30gram 6's do all my pigeon and pheasant ! But for ducks I go to a 4 or 5 ! Such posts as these can be blamed if or indeed when we loose lead amunition, non compliance is our enemys weapon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 does it really matter the fact is every manufacturer offers a game load in 7's so someone is using them, rather than your calling everything in 7's a clay load it was purely pointing out that was bunkum and for a fair bit of driven shooting they actually work quite well. Yes it does, if they are continental shot size 7, then they are equivalent to a UK 6. I'd imagine the game cartridges that are offered in size 7 are for small/ close game, partridge, woodcock, walked up shooting, grouse even?? I very much doubt they are marketed towards driven pheasant shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) 7s are more than enough for driven pheasant unless you expect every bird to be over 45 yards, which I doubt is the case for most. People get things in their head and convince themselves/others that they need xyz to take a bird down clean on the basis of "I used them once and winged a few". Couldn't possibly be that they were pointin the gun in the wrong place! Edited November 7, 2012 by EdSolomons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Yes it does, if they are continental shot size 7, then they are equivalent to a UK 6. I'd imagine the game cartridges that are offered in size 7 are for small/ close game, partridge, woodcock, walked up shooting, grouse even?? I very much doubt they are marketed towards driven pheasant shooting. Not much grouse shooting in Portsmouth Chrispti I suspect. Driven grouse are usually taken at 50 yds plus out in front to allow the shooter to have another two barrels behind. An ounce load of no 6 shot but 7 would do, same as pheasant really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Not much grouse shooting in Portsmouth Chrispti I suspect. Driven grouse are usually taken at 50 yds plus out in front to allow the shooter to have another two barrels behind. An ounce load of no 6 shot but 7 would do, same as pheasant really. No, not much at all, hence the question marks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingit Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 7s are more than enough for driven pheasant unless you expect every bird to be over 45 yards, which I doubt is the case for most. People get things in their head and convince themselves/others that they need xyz to take a bird down clean on the basis of "I used them once and winged a few". Couldn't possibly be that they were pointin the gun in the wrong place! Spot on Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinga86 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Really don't need much cart for normal pheasants 28gm of 6s is fine for 99% of pheasants. 32-34gms of 5? Maybe for 70yrd screamers ? Amen brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 i dont think pheasants are that tough, i often shoot crows with no 7. in deed many a pheasant has fallen to a light load from a .410 while at roost. In all honesty i have wounded crows with no.1 at times, should i be using T shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Such posts as these can be blamed if or indeed when we loose lead amunition, non compliance is our enemys weapon Neither Kes OR Salop sniper have said the shot was LEAD and even if so Lead is still legal in Scotland on wildfowl as long as your not shooting OVER water! That would be a Typical Anti stance! Fill in the blanks with what they want to hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) i dont think pheasants are that tough, i often shoot crows with no 7. in deed many a pheasant has fallen to a light load from a .410 while at roost. In all honesty i have wounded crows with no.1 at times, should i be using T shot? A light load from a 410 ....... You wouldent need much more to blast a sleeping pheasant off of its perch at 10yrds ....... ! Edited November 8, 2012 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 7s are more than enough for driven pheasant unless you expect every bird to be over 45 yards, which I doubt is the case for most. People get things in their head and convince themselves/others that they need xyz to take a bird down clean on the basis of "I used them once and winged a few". Couldn't possibly be that they were pointin the gun in the wrong place! Totally agree with this. For years i was fixated on 32gm 6 for pigeon, sometimes even buying 36gm! Then cartridge prices started to rise steeply and i tried other options. I soon found that an ounce of 7.5 would easily take care of a 40 yard pigeon and therefore are mustard on 40 yard partridge. I don't shoot many pheasants, but have no problem in using a size 7 on them, unless it's a high bird shoot - but then i'm talking 60+ yards- which i probably wouldn't want to do anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 l dont use heavy loads, an ounce 5s for all my shooting (less wildfowling obviously) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 It's all good and well having a nice dense pattern, but if the shot doesn't carry sufficient energy at range, it won't penetrate and kill the quarry cleanly and efficiently. It's no accident, that in over 100 years of shotgun shooting, specific loads for certain quarries have been settled upon.... Typically, 28g 7.5 for clays. 30-32g 6 for pigeons / small game. 30-32g + 5 - 4 for game. As Iv said before, people only use clay loads for live quarry because they are cheap, or they do allot of clay shooting and can't be ***** to go and buy another slab of pigeon or game cartridges. No7 cartridges where certainly available 100 years ago but they weren't used on clays!! and to say that 7's won't penetrate is absolute nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Neither Kes OR Salop sniper have said the shot was LEAD and even if so Lead is still legal in Scotland on wildfowl as long as your not shooting OVER water! That would be a Typical Anti stance! Fill in the blanks with what they want to hear! Thank you sir, Its up to those shooting cartridges to make sure they abide by the law - I use 5's (steel) for duck and find them excellent. I was around before the restrictions and have shot duck in Scotland (and Wales). There seems to be a pattern with your posts Kent and despite me having Pm'd you over a previous critical post your approach continues and not just with me. You offer good advice so dont spoil it with Ya BOOOH criticisms. You may be perfect, others are not so sure (of themselves - naturally !!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thank you sir, Its up to those shooting cartridges to make sure they abide by the law - I use 5's (steel) for duck and find them excellent. I was around before the restrictions and have shot duck in Scotland (and Wales). There seems to be a pattern with your posts Kent and despite me having Pm'd you over a previous critical post your approach continues and not just with me. You offer good advice so dont spoil it with Ya BOOOH criticisms. You may be perfect, others are not so sure (of themselves - naturally !!). sorry you see it that way but i only know one guy who shoots 5 steel at duck and he shoots them all under 30yds over deeks and is an exceptionally good / experianced shot, i couldn't and wouldn't emulate him. The new lightning steel might well be different but for duck like mallard on a pheasant day the birds would have to be close to use what has been available in steel no.5 so i am choosing to not believe you in this instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thank you sir, Its up to those shooting cartridges to make sure they abide by the law - I use 5's (steel) for duck and find them excellent. I was around before the restrictions and have shot duck in Scotland (and Wales). There seems to be a pattern with your posts Kent and despite me having Pm'd you over a previous critical post your approach continues and not just with me. You offer good advice so dont spoil it with Ya BOOOH criticisms. You may be perfect, others are not so sure (of themselves - naturally !!). the block function works really well Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Neither Kes OR Salop sniper have said the shot was LEAD and even if so Lead is still legal in Scotland on wildfowl as long as your not shooting OVER water! That would be a Typical Anti stance! Fill in the blanks with what they want to hear! yes i have read between the lines and yes i do think that most of us can guess the truth on this matter well enough. if more people were caught, exposed and expelled from shoots / associations for using lead were they should not our fight to keep lead would be much easier. Most guys know the score on this, just that i am the one standing up saying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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