cockercas Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'm not overly bothered mate. I just hope when he makes his mistake no one else is around to be hurt. Rocket science its not but neither is driving. Reloadings only maths and logic. Makes you wonder why he has so many problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'm not overly bothered mate. I just hope when he makes his mistake no one else is around to be hurt. Rocket science its not but neither is driving. Reloadings only maths and logic. Makes you wonder why he has so many problems. Well I for one hopes nobody gets hurt, and I expect with sensible advice and constructive advice his problem will be sorted, may the force be with you cockerass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Not sure why he branded me that. I've only ever given him advice and he has allways said thanks. Allways fancyed a lightsaber. (In red) Well I for one hopes nobody gets hurt, and I expect with sensible advice and constructive advice his problem will be sorted, may the force be with you cockerass. I'm not sure what's happend there^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Although i've no time for you, i will conceed that i should have been abit more clear in my post regarding overpressure. That was with 28 grains of powder. Since then i've dropped to 27.5 grains to stay safe. I've lost a tiny bit of accuracy but at least i've not had any further overpressure issues. I was hoping it was due to neck sizing hence the post. If it was and i corrected it i would be able to slightly increase the powder and regain the slight loss of accuracy. NOW P*** O**!! There is more to pressure than the amount of powder - carry on I don't care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 There is more to pressure than the amount of powder - carry on I don't care Looks like 2013 is going to be one of love and care to ones fellow man then kent, is there anyone on here man enough to forget his own self importance and give the lad a little slack on being a tad hot headed, and maybe, just maybe trying to avert an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Looks like 2013 is going to be one of love and care to ones fellow man then kent, is there anyone on here man enough to forget his own self importance and give the lad a little slack on being a tad hot headed, and maybe, just maybe trying to avert an injury. Haven't we tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Although i've no time for you, i will conceed that i should have been abit more clear in my post regarding overpressure. That was with 28 grains of powder. Since then i've dropped to 27.5 grains to stay safe. I've lost a tiny bit of accuracy but at least i've not had any further overpressure issues. I was hoping it was due to neck sizing hence the post. If it was and i corrected it i would be able to slightly increase the powder and regain the slight loss of accuracy. NOW P*** O**!! Redgum. Altho you are trying dosnt the last line of above sum up why me and kent have the attitude we have?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 The same goes for kent and fister. I've never had time for pretentious, arrogant self righteous people. WOW, think you'll find fister to be a most helpful and knowledgeable chap! Very well respected across many shooting forums, if I were you I'd be listening to him no slagging him off....... as for your OP problem, have you tried to take it back a step, go back to full length sizing and see if the problems with being tight follows? if you can run 28 grains in a FL sized case then the issue may lie with either the neck size die or your operation of it. There is more to pressure than the amount of powder indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 The biggest mistake in this topic is Jamie chasing the holy grail. IT DOESN'T EXIST The biggest mistake in this topic is Jamie chasing the holy grail. IT DOESN'T EXIST In fact going back and reading your later posts, you carry on mate. But if you show your head above the parapet and don't like the answers given then don't post. go find a knitting forum. Now placed on ignore list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Looks like 2013 is going to be one of love and care to ones fellow man then kent, is there anyone on here man enough to forget his own self importance and give the lad a little slack on being a tad hot headed, and maybe, just maybe trying to avert an injury. Nope, he was warned what the issues were long back ignored them and just flung insults and swore at those that have probably been doing this sort of thing before he was born. I worry for the non poster who reads trash then hurts himself not the guy who is rude and wont listen. That's the only reason I bothered to post the innocent 3rd party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 The biggest mistake in this topic is Jamie chasing the holy grail. IT DOESN'T EXIST In fact going back and reading your later posts, you carry on mate. But if you show your head above the parapet and don't like the answers given then don't post. go find a knitting forum. Now placed on ignore list. my issue is the asking of questions and the taking no notice whatsoever, then posting yet another thread showing he really needs help which you do feel sorry for and then there is indeed the holy grail. Chasing down 1000's of an inch is not going to make the difference when the nut behind the trigger makes ten times the difference. My thoughts are get a load ok on paper and get out and shoot the bloody thing at quarry stop worrying about chasing the dots on paper. Enough has been said to suggest a safe load and leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 'fister[/color]' timestamp='1358238467' post='2029397']Fister - Its like giving Frank Spencer a Sinclair catalogue and waiting for the ambulance kent[/color]' timestamp='1358250564' post='2029542'] :lol: :lol: , Still its a serious matter! These comments are a casing point. I'm open to ****taking, like anybody else. But on this occasion i asked and even posted that i was after "constructive" advice. Yet "fister" decides to post an insulting, smug and cockey unconstructive comment. How is that helpful? Then as usual, one of your forum "mates" (on this occasion "kent") has to reaffirm it with his post. Despite the comments to the contrary i am not stupid, and i'm very aware fister has a vast amount of knowledge as have some of his "followers". However, that doesn't give him or anyone else the right to be patronising and cockey to people with less knowledge on the subject! I appreciate anyone who takes the time to answer my posts constructively. And whether i agree or not i still take the information onboard. Every thread i start when requesting advice have been replied to by pm by various members. Infact quite a few times... It doesn't matter who they are. But it is quite clear from the content of some of the pm's that they didn't want to post on open forum as they were in fear of being "flamed" or ridiculed! (granted it may be because they don't have the right answer) And i'm not surprised considering the amount thread "hijacks" that take place by the so called "gurus" arguing between themselves about who's right! I've now explained myself, so end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 jam1e, You can adjust your dies to partially size your necks, Redding bushing dies and Wilson hand dies only size 2/3rds of the neck. Going back to your post i just want to say that by adding an extra 1/8 of a turn on your dies and overcamming your press all you are doing is putting undue pressure on the bottom of the die and the shell holder, this extra partial turn will not in any way alter the sizing of your case. All you need to do to reduce the amount of neck sized is to back out your die by the desired amount, probably about a complete turn but the amount is up to you. The fact that it is taking 40 blows with a kinetic bullet puller only tells me that you have too much neck tension, if your expander ball is on the small side of acceptable tolerences then it will not expand your neck as much giving you a tighter grip on the bullets. Bullets from different makers can be as much .001" bigger or smaller then others so a bigger bullet coupled with a small expander button will increase neck tension By sizing only 2/3rds of your neck you will reduce your neck tension some what because of the reduction of surface area gripping the bullet, however i still think your problem lies with too much neck tension. I use bushing dies and only use enough neck tension so that the bullet cannot be rotated in the case between thumb and forefinger, with this amount of tension and the 2/3rds sized neck, bullets are released on the first or always by the second strike of the bullet hammer. To give you this ability to vary neck tension you need to invest in a set of neck bushing dies which i am sure will cure your problems. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 jam1e, You can adjust your dies to partially size your necks, Redding bushing dies and Wilson hand dies only size 2/3rds of the neck. Going back to your post i just want to say that by adding an extra 1/8 of a turn on your dies and overcamming your press all you are doing is putting undue pressure on the bottom of the die and the shell holder, this extra partial turn will not in any way alter the sizing of your case. All you need to do to reduce the amount of neck sized is to back out your die by the desired amount, probably about a complete turn but the amount is up to you. The fact that it is taking 40 blows with a kinetic bullet puller only tells me that you have too much neck tension, if your expander ball is on the small side of acceptable tolerences then it will not expand your neck as much giving you a tighter grip on the bullets. Bullets from different makers can be as much .001" bigger or smaller then others so a bigger bullet coupled with a small expander button will increase neck tension By sizing only 2/3rds of your neck you will reduce your neck tension some what because of the reduction of surface area gripping the bullet, however i still think your problem lies with too much neck tension. I use bushing dies and only use enough neck tension so that the bullet cannot be rotated in the case between thumb and forefinger, with this amount of tension and the 2/3rds sized neck, bullets are released on the first or always by the second strike of the bullet hammer. To give you this ability to vary neck tension you need to invest in a set of neck bushing dies which i am sure will cure your problems. Ian. Interesting, I always use a factory crimp die on my reloads just for piece of mind in the field as the rnds will be in and out of the rilfle and in and out of my belt pouch and in and out of the safe, unless of course I'm playing with the targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisv Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Jam1e, In your first post you said you screwed the die in 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch after contact with the shellholder. You meant 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn I presume? Edited January 17, 2013 by chrisv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 im actually rather embarrassed by the complements paid to me but i only know cockercass as he lives in the same county. Contrary to your assumption Kent and i have probably clashed more than agreed in the past so i dont think we are "forum mates" we just happen to share a similar view on this point. Personally im now going to be deliberately rude because i hadnt even grasped the ringpull of the can the first time. My old duelling pal Ackley used to have a quote that would fit oh so well here but as im typing im not sure i can bring myself to say it............can anyone guess? Im looking forward to your venture with bushing dies, maybe you will be neck turning too next week but if not 40 blows witha kinetic hammer even on a 40 gr bullet sounds like you are swinging it like YOUR handbag. . Only on PW could neck tensions be measured with a kinetic hammer, now there is a name from the past, Ackley, I wonder how he is, one thing with Ackley, he didnt know the meaning of STOP, even from the moderators. I'm a little confused with too much neck tension causing dangerous pressure, surely brass will only have a certain amount of grip on the bullet, even if you did reduce the neck size enough that a boat tail could squeeze into it. Neck tension helps the case gas fit the chamber before the bullet moves forward but surely wouldnt cause pressure issues unless you used supper glue. So should a factory crimp die have a government health warning, you would have to already be on dangerous ground before neck tension is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Gents, First of all the only thing I require a good crimp with is my sphincter. oh, and .22 hornet of course. Secondly this thread reminds me of a famous management saying and it applies superbly: Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig Ackers (lovely bloke when you meet him) simplified it to "You can't educate pork". Do I get a prize Chris? Edited January 17, 2013 by DaveK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 And Dave, you are cheating, we are forum buddies :-) Insider dealing isn't just reserved for the stock market me old pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Neck tension isnt being measured, merely compared And Dave, you are cheating, we are forum buddies :-) So let me get this right. You and Dave are comparing neck tensions? is this a gardening forum? uphill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig Loving that olde mate. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) jam1e, You can adjust your dies to partially size your necks, Redding bushing dies and Wilson hand dies only size 2/3rds of the neck. Going back to your post i just want to say that by adding an extra 1/8 of a turn on your dies and overcamming your press all you are doing is putting undue pressure on the bottom of the die and the shell holder, this extra partial turn will not in any way alter the sizing of your case. All you need to do to reduce the amount of neck sized is to back out your die by the desired amount, probably about a complete turn but the amount is up to you. The fact that it is taking 40 blows with a kinetic bullet puller only tells me that you have too much neck tension, if your expander ball is on the small side of acceptable tolerences then it will not expand your neck as much giving you a tighter grip on the bullets. Bullets from different makers can be as much .001" bigger or smaller then others so a bigger bullet coupled with a small expander button will increase neck tension By sizing only 2/3rds of your neck you will reduce your neck tension some what because of the reduction of surface area gripping the bullet, however i still think your problem lies with too much neck tension. I use bushing dies and only use enough neck tension so that the bullet cannot be rotated in the case between thumb and forefinger, with this amount of tension and the 2/3rds sized neck, bullets are released on the first or always by the second strike of the bullet hammer. To give you this ability to vary neck tension you need to invest in a set of neck bushing dies which i am sure will cure your problems. Ian. Cheers Ian I'll have a nose on the net and read-up on them. atb. Jamie. Edited January 17, 2013 by jam1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Interesting, I always use a factory crimp die on my reloads just for piece of mind in the field as the rnds will be in and out of the rilfle and in and out of my belt pouch and in and out of the safe, unless of course I'm playing with the targets. Redgum, Both of my rifles are single shot and my rounds are moved backwards and forwards from a butt stock ammo holder when in the field, the rest are in a MTM caseguard back in the motor, because they are not subjected to recoil forces while in a mag or mag box there is no need for a heavy crimp Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Crimps straighten rounds up, I don't use them though as there are better ways IMO they are really for heavy recoiling guns and Auto - we don't have auto here so. You wont mess up your hunting rounds by loading and unloading unless you have them popping out of the end of the case and too little clearance to the rifling is a big issue as regards pressure. Pressure issues are not always about the combustive forces them selves but were the PEAK pressure occurs. Edited January 18, 2013 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Ackers (lovely bloke when you meet him) simplified it to "You can't educate pork". Thought it was sprags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 sprags the long version, ackley the short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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