theshootist Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Kalahari said: All God's children need a BPS!!!!!!!!!! David Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 9 hours ago, theshootist said: Yup! Or a M12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klatuveradanikto Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Kalahari said: All God's children need a BPS!!!!!!!!!! David Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Scrumbag said: Or a M12? Now one of those would sit nicely with my 120 and 1200 Winnie’s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) Morning fellow pumpers, Been moving house etc etc from Cornwall to Devon, now 90% complete thank goodness, hence lack of 'comms'. I'd like to comment on a discussion a while ago on PC regarding the practicalities of 'slam fire'. Owning or having recently done so, several Winchester '97's, Ithaca M37's and Winchester 62A, I have had the opportunity of timing of 5 rounds 'on target' (an old jerry can) at about 10 yards distant, against a Browning Auto5, Beretta A400 and BAR. Using 3 different experianced shooters, familar with the weapons (all Sec 1), in favourable outdoors conditions, the self loaders beat the pumps every time buy a margin of approx 50%, which surprised us. The reason is presumed to be the time the pumps took to 'return to target' before working the action, against the auto's reloading themselves during the recoil phase of the cycle, thus all the shooter had to concentrate on was acquiring the target and squeezing the trigger we concluded. Therefore assuming equal mechanical reliability, we found there is no advantage to the 'slam fire' of a pump against a self-loader, even at 'bayonet ranges'. Militarily, and with paper cases, pumps might have been found to be more reliable, with little/inexperianced/no maintenance, but we did'nt try dunking them in seawater etc at any point ! Hope I'm not 'ejected' from PC as a consequence of these surprising findings. Thanks to Pete and Tony for their help in conducting this comparison, and to Carolyn for bringing endless refreshments in ear defenders! Regards Steve Edited May 12, 2018 by stevethejeep miss spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 Sounds like a good day out. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) Sounds like the only one not to enjoy that was Jerry and his can! very interesting though I think we are probably all agreed that 'slam fire' or 'trigger over-ride' is simply a by product of simple mechanical construction for reliability and longevity in an age without health and safety gremlins looking over everyone's shoulder. The terminology has probably been romanticised over the years for sales, ethos and ego, still a lot of fun though and not available on modern stuff! Edited May 13, 2018 by impala59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted May 14, 2018 Report Share Posted May 14, 2018 Yes indeed, and the assumption that pumps were issued to the Military in WW's 1&2 were probably due to: a. Cost and b. Simplicity of cleaning and servicing 'in the field. Like the revolver vs automatic in the world of pistiols, the user is less likley to loose components of the gun whilst cleaning a pump than the semi auto. This is especially true when the barrel removes as easily as 1897's & M37's do. The timings ran from the 1st to 5th shot, with observations made to ensure all rounds hit the target, difference was approx 5 seconds for the pumps and 3 seconds for the autos.we did'nt bother with decimal points. Unsurprisingly, the Winchester 69A was the fastest pump if my memory serves me well. The lawn mower beckons Grrrrr ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Chug chug chug boom!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 14/05/2018 at 15:30, stevethejeep said: Yes indeed, and the assumption that pumps were issued to the Military in WW's 1&2 were probably due to: a. Cost and b. Simplicity of cleaning and servicing 'in the field. Like the revolver vs automatic in the world of pistiols, the user is less likley to loose components of the gun whilst cleaning a pump than the semi auto. This is especially true when the barrel removes as easily as 1897's & M37's do. The timings ran from the 1st to 5th shot, with observations made to ensure all rounds hit the target, difference was approx 5 seconds for the pumps and 3 seconds for the autos.we did'nt bother with decimal points. Unsurprisingly, the Winchester 69A was the fastest pump if my memory serves me well. The lawn mower beckons Grrrrr ! Was the Winchester 69A not a bolt action rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Could be a decent wingmaster for someone if they want it: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/southams-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srso10043/lot-a553588b-e5eb-42aa-93d0-a8da011aea61 Scrummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) On 15/05/2018 at 17:51, theshootist said: Was the Winchester 69A not a bolt action rifle? I believe that you are right and that Steve's is a 62A, designed by JMB and commonly known as the fastest slide (pump)action ever made (.22 so much shorter stroke and much less recoil than a shotgun) Awaiting being shot down in flames? 9 hours ago, Scrumbag said: Could be a decent wingmaster for someone if they want it: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/southams-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srso10043/lot-a553588b-e5eb-42aa-93d0-a8da011aea61 Scrummy Yeah saw that , price guide was a bit pessimistic, anyone in Bedford area would be advised to take a look before bidding Edited May 16, 2018 by impala59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Ah-ha 'I wondered when you'd spot that one' ............ as Captain Mannering would have said............. Yes Impala's quite correct I've a Winchester 62A .22rf rifle, which is a slide/pump action, and a delightful gun to use, and the first firearm I ever fired, at a shooting gallery in Wilson's funfair at Kenilworth in about 1960 when I was 11/12. Slightly 'off topic' the same gallery was still in use with the same 62a's at Banbury (Oxon) steam fair in '01 or '02. Shan't be watching the 'wedding' probably trying to introduce a M37 to a magpie who is plundering the local 'tweety-birds' nests of eggs and chicks or catch trout in the river Exe. Happy Days, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) Now that sounds a much better way to spend a day, than watching a wedding that you have not been forced to go to.. I shall be shooting clays with my model 12 and auto 5 before test riding a motorbike! Hooray! Edited May 18, 2018 by theshootist typed too fast.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I'm not watching the wedding either! I'm off down to Bisley to zero the .223 and renew my SCC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 All 1st Class passtimes Fulltime scores........ Magpies 0 M37s 1 ............ no score draw with the trout again! Off to 'punch paper at local rifle club with 62a ............ at least the targets dont fly or swim away! Enjoy the glorious weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 Hi folks, Boyds have a firesale on including forends for Ithaca 37s https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/rapid-fire/ithaca-37-12-gauge-ribbed-forend49293 BPS 12b forend https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/rapid-fire/browning-bps-american-plainsman-12-gauge-forend87829 Mossberg 500 forend: https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/rapid-fire/mossberg-500-12-gauge-ribbed-forend0d7e1 Various Rem 870 forends: https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/rapid-fire/remington-870-12-gauge-forend75583 Lots of stuff under $100 so no issues to ship. ATB, Scrummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 Well a Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck has just joined the fold. Not as slick as the Ithaca but built like a tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 15 hours ago, a303 said: Well a Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck has just joined the fold. Not as slick as the Ithaca but built like a tank. Nice, looking forward to seeing the pictures! I’m guessing that heavy duck refers to long barrel 3” magnum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Yep, the heavy duck model is 3” chambered, heavy walled barrel, recoil pad and slug of lead in the stock, compared to the standard one. And a super super tight full choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benkent Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Here's my Mossberg 590 so far. Has the following Magpul mlok forend Mesa tactical side saddle Enhanced safety Magpul mlok rail Just need to get the Magpul sga stock and forward sling mount but Brownells still doesnt have the stock in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I like yer mugs. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benkent Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Lord v said: I like yer mugs. ? I can't stand them hands are too big lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 53 minutes ago, Benkent said: I can't stand them hands are too big lol. See I have womens hands. I would be fine. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Looking good Benkent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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