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A mate received a phone call to ask if he would be the "a" panel judge at a flat coat trial. He replied he would rather spend a week in strange ways. She put the phone down after that!

 

I can imagine this friend is well known on the showing circuit and does crufts with them each year, and really wants to play at picking up with them so she can get some showing and working certificate for them and take pictures of them running about chewing dead pheasants. I have had to say bring one onto our syndicate if you want but fortunately never got pinned down on a date, they can't be representative of the breed but that many in a house makes visiting hell on earth then you have every bad dog trait going. Eating each others **** the odd ruck diarrhea in the house when they have eaten anything slightly odd and well though my GWP keeps being invited round with us once and never again. Dogs trying to hump her all the time I put her in the truck the only time I tried it as it was going to turn into a blood bath she copes with being jumped all over for a short while but not endlessly I was going to see an expensive dog with god knows how many rosettes to its name flattened and no doubt scarred :rolleyes:

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"working certificates" are BS and mislead the unwary into thinking the parents are gundogs by definition not just breed dead wrong! I never rate pictures as proving anything - said it before but you could photograph one running the wrong way via interception. Good old German crocodiles gotta love that solid reliable temperament and balanced response :lol:

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never one to miss a dig eh Kent, I'd defy you to put your lab in a garden with 12 badly behaved dogs have half them trying to hump him as they will and the rest flattening him into the mud. My german object has only ever put dogs in their place and never actually done anything but a sensible owner could see when it was going to happen and remove her from the situation, personally I'd have understood entirely. This is one who will happily sit on a beaters wagon with a decent number of dogs and be bullet proof

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There's a couple off flatties that come to the local gundog clubs test's and there not too bad, but a world off difference retrieving a few dummies too actually working on a shoot day. Bound to be a few working strain ones around if u look hard enough.

 

Still a few decent goldies about, have picked up beside a pack of them a few times and she usually trials them fairly succesfully and often qualifies for the IGL champ's (and i think had DOM's) which is a pretty big achievement in itself when competeing against labs

 

Sounds a decent laid back wirey u've got al4x, some can be real softy's but others do deserve the rep they've got, like all dogs/breeds. I wish some of the lab's on 1 shoot i go to were as laid back as that, the only shoot i go to with fighting dogs and it'd got 3 of the things. Total pain and the owners don't help matters

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I was on a shoot with three flatcoats and all worked well even went into cover and would retrieve as well as any of the spaniels there was only two labs one would bite you or any other do the other would just do what it liked and not a thing it was told he ended up with a shock coller thing on and I offered to take it off the dog and test it on its handler before he used on the dog needles to say he declined,

I could get a flatcoat from working stock I just don't want one.

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never one to miss a dig eh Kent, I'd defy you to put your lab in a garden with 12 badly behaved dogs have half them trying to hump him as they will and the rest flattening him into the mud. My german object has only ever put dogs in their place and never actually done anything but a sensible owner could see when it was going to happen and remove her from the situation, personally I'd have understood entirely. This is one who will happily sit on a beaters wagon with a decent number of dogs and be bullet proof

" Flattened and no doubt scarred" you cant have it both ways. :rolleyes: I think he might like that actually :lol:

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Here's one for you, I was speaking to Tommy Brechney a while back. Now Tommy has had trial winning labs, spaniels and HPRs (GSPs) in his kennel and reckons that when picking up nothing was as good as his GSPs.

Very unlikely this guy would think differently. They all have their uses! Guy Wallace in his book " the specialist gundog" scores all the breeds for each disapline, it doesn't look at individual dogs just the breed In "picking up" the highest score is 5 the springer and the cocker get 5 all the retrievers inc flatcoats get 5 (bar the chessie wich gets 4?) the HPR's all get 3 except the Britany which gets 1. "Picking up grouse" the story is the same except the spaniels score 4 and 3 (leg length?) The chessie now rises to 5 (no unknown dogs to pick arguments with?) with the same scores for the HPR's replicated all 3 bar the Brit. ( I don't think he is keen) Rory suggested to me you send the right dog on the right retrieve no dog is better just different ( I see this on the marsh with springers my mate uses hunting the spartina beds methodically without scent on the off chance and also down the overhanging fringes of the small gutters, yet often failing on the long directed blinds that a good experianced lab would take in its stride. My Wire was handy on long lightly hit running geese (these can cover a lot of ground quite quick with a wing down ) as he did the hunting at speed and distant covering the ground quick and able "on the right scenting day" to wind something litrally 100's of yards off, in training I have seen him pick up the air scent of blinds at 300 yds (bad scent day and he would get trashed by a springer and an energetic handler) or ( a lab if the owner or dog marked the initial fall well)

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Very unlikely this guy would think differently.

 

Why? Are you suggesting he's blinkered because of his success with GSPs? He's running cockers now BTW, and was in the Scotland team at the CLA in 2011 with one so not exactly a one trick pony as a handler.

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Why? Are you suggesting he's blinkered because of his success with GSPs? He's running cockers now BTW, and was in the Scotland team at the CLA in 2011 with one so not exactly a one trick pony as a handler.

Not at all, I am however suggesting that someone with a great deal of experience with a certain type of firearm knows how to use it to its very best effect- even if there might be better tools for the job- the knowledge and experience bit means a heck of a lot than always having the right gun. I care just a little bit more than Zero about (modern day) trials so forgive me his reputation for knowing the shorthair impresses more than his trialling credentials and success. Though my comments were complementary to the guy I don't feel the statement is true for all handlers

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  • 2 weeks later...

"It really bugs me people taking dogs claying and having them stand effectively on peg. It will damage their hearing as we all know and is so pointless it's ridiculous"

 

"6 months or younger I would be concerned about damaging their tympanic membrane but there is a big difference between shooting clays with a dog next to you and letting them hear relatively close shot at a clay ground."

 

Why is it? it gets the dog used to lots of bangs and makes them very steady around multi gunshots such as you would experience on a pheasant shoot at times, And saying that its making them deaf is utter rubbish, they have the largest ears on any hpr which totally covers the typmapic membrane and deflects the noise, they are incapable of lifting thier ears high enough to let the noise affect them..

 

I do not have them "stand on a peg" My wife or one of the kids or fellow shooters hold them slightly back, being in the environment with so many guns going off in my opinion prepares them well for driven and walked up days.

 

I then shoot over them rough shooting. and on walks 1-2 times a week, they soon get used to the noise.

"I see the point of getting the dog to the gun by 6mnths but taking them down to a clay shoot or blasting a 12 bore over their heads as an introduction is a very risky strategy- I assume they were introduced slower than this with claps, banging and .22 blanks in the distance first though? "

 

No, what we do is start off in the feild behind the shoot, then to the tea truck the walk around and ignore any reactions they have but reassure them continually. I have 7 dogs and none of them have any issues with gunfire at all.

 

 

"I /we both like bigger dog an a challenge is there any other differences between the wire and short haired apart from the obviously the hair"

 

the wire haireds are less stand offish with nettles and the like, the smooth coats tend to point and let the labbs and sprigers do the flush....sensible!!

 

"I don't agree with the clay ground training either. From a young age I slowly introduced my lab with loud noises going from dropping his food bowls to one of my sons cap gun, to a friend firing a dummy launcher. My lab is now 11 months and not gun shy :good: "

 

Thats great, your way works for you, my way works for me......can you say either method is wrong?

 

Bellyslater, thats a good looking boy you have there!!!!

 

 

"great looking pictures, I wonder if most of the negative comments are because its not the normal dog to have ie Lab , Spaniel etc??"

 

you totally hit the nail on the head!!! People dont like to change from whats seen as traditional, the funny thing is my viszlas will often flush birds that labs and springers have missed and be first to find birds lost in long grass etc, they have such keen noses. Each to thier own, I dont like spaniels and labs bore me cest la vie!!

 

"No mate, its because most HPRs are rubbish."

 

Haha what a precocious statement, ive seen labs and spaniels far worse than any HPR ive seen You clearly have no idea about being subjective, youve made up your mind you dont like hprs so what? there are good and bad in every breed but ive seen far more bad spaniels and labs than hprs.

 

" for me, is still a spaniel."

 

There it is, all boils down to preference, you like spaniels and think everyone should have one, well I dont like them and will never have one!

 

 

" But is it actually the dogs or the trainers? "

 

Nail on the head, they need training, they dont just do it straight out of the box!!!!

 

"Also they are generally harder to train and slower to mature"

 

you are generalising, gsps take 3 years to calm down, Viszla, which this thread is about, tend to become steady much earlier.

 

 

 

In the end it all boils down to Taste Fergie, there are loads of bigoted idiots on here who think thier gun or thier dog is the best, ultimately the choice is yours, if you listen to half the rubbish sprouted on this thread youll never buy a viszla, but to see for yourself why not ask one of us with viszlas to take you out and show you how its done instead of listening to a load of b ollocks!!!

Edited by Evil Elvis
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I am not sure if I am one of the aforementioned "bigoted idiots" but my comment that MOST HPRs are rubbish is based on shooting over a fairly large number of these dogs on days designed to showcase the dog and handlers abilities. A good one is a dog to cherish, perhaps I have been very unlucky and have only seen two I would want to take home, both have been GSPs.

 

For the record MOST spaniels and MOST labs are equally poor but there are far more of them and because of the type of work they do they get away with all sorts. An HPR running for guns has to hunt, point and retrieve and it is the focus of attention. A spaniel or a lab in the beating line or picking up can hunt out of range and in an unruly fashion - most do - or when picking up they run in, switch, make a noise etc. But a lot goes unseen or is forgiven provided birds are flushed or brought to hand.

 

Enjoy your dogs. I enjoy mine. Sorry if my opinion upset you, I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

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I am not sure if I am one of the aforementioned "bigoted idiots" but my comment that MOST HPRs are rubbish is based on shooting over a fairly large number of these dogs on days designed to showcase the dog and handlers abilities. A good one is a dog y much how I see itto cherish, perhaps I have been very unlucky and have only seen two I would want to take home, both have been GSPs.

 

For the record MOST spaniels and MOST labs are equally poor but there are far more of them and because of the type of work they do they get away with all sorts. An HPR running for guns has to hunt, point and retrieve and it is the focus of attention. A spaniel or a lab in the beating line or picking up can hunt out of range and in an unruly fashion - most do - or when picking up they run in, switch, make a noise etc. But a lot goes unseen or is forgiven provided birds are flushed or brought to hand.

 

Enjoy your dogs. I enjoy mine. Sorry if my opinion upset you, I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

 

Very honest post, that's very much how I see it. When the're good the're very very good, when the're bad the're horrid

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Each to thier own, I dont like spaniels and labs bore me cest la vie!!

 

Me too.

 

IMO you will always do better with the dog you really want rather than the one other people tell you you should have.

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Me too.

 

IMO you will always do better with the dog you really want rather than the one other people tell you you should have.

 

The most sensible thing said on this thread brillaint!!!

 

hey WGD I didnt take it personal but it does **** me off when people generalise, my dogs are far from perfect but they work and i get a great deal of pleasure from them!!! Viszlas and Braccos....love em!!

 

Picked up a new boy From Hunagry today!! His name is Judas

 

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Edited by Evil Elvis
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I have hunted with braccos...many many years, always nice to see them working in the field, they have that aurora around them, that make people think,,,this dog its a complete dement....then when you start hunting with them, you find out straigh away, that they are hunting machines and very good ones too.

 

Baz....you have an excellent dog there...I would be really happy if one day I could join you in a rough shoot just to see him hunting

 

Mark

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