New to Rifles

[Guest]

I'm looking into buying my first rifle soon as I've just started working on an estate for a gamekeeper part time and want something to deal with old Charlie? Any suggestions on make/calibre? I'm also a gamekeeping student so money isn't great but open to ideas!

 

Thanks.

 

Tom.

[Scully]

Tikka.Any model. In .223 or above.

[V8 90]

It's all down to personal choice really - Tikka's are indeed nice Rifles however they aren't cheap. What budget do you have ? Remember your going to need a scope & probably a sound mod' - I had a Tikka T3 Varmint .223 it was a nice Rifle but heavy, I swapped it for a Kimber Classic .204 & have never looked back.

 

Obviuosly need to decide which Cal you want before you submit your application - add .22lr & .17Hmr + Moderators for them all when you submit it.

 

Do you have Muntys over your way ? If so you may want a Cal that can deal with them too + ask for them as a quarry on your application along with Fox & Vermin

 

HTH

[Cottonseed]

Generally, Lancashire won't condition centrefires for vermin, ground game and fox. It would be useful for you to have .22 centrefire, .17hmr and .22LR in your new position. However, if funds are short and you want a rifle capable of taking foxes up to sensible ranges--up to about 180 yards--as well as rabbits and corvids, you could apply for a .22 Hornet. I don't think they would allow Joe Soap a .22Hornet on first application, but you may prove an exception if you are a gamekeeper and have more experienced rifle users on hand to mentor you. Talk to youyr boss and the FEO at Hutton.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Cottonseed

[kent]

Generally, Lancashire won't condition centrefires for vermin, ground game and fox. It would be useful for you to have .22 centrefire, .17hmr and .22LR in your new position. However, if funds are short and you want a rifle capable of taking foxes up to sensible ranges--up to about 180 yards--as well as rabbits and corvids, you could apply for a .22 Hornet. I don't think they would allow Joe Soap a .22Hornet on first application, but you may prove an exception if you are a gamekeeper and have more experienced rifle users on hand to mentor you. Talk to youyr boss and the FEO at Hutton.

Yes Lancs will grant c/fire for vermin, if you ask and you have good reason. I have it and any "trainee keeper" should certainly get it- just don't ask for something too big ie. keep it under 22-250, 30-06 is sure to get a no . first time applicants are given C/F first application quite commonly. Do consider a Hornet, I am in Forest of Bowland if you want to see one in action BTW PM me if

[lewis2012]

The .223 seems to be to popular choice for charlie but if you want further than 250yds go for a 22-250. Its a very fast, flat shooting wwildcat round and it'll knock charlie clean although the 223 is very efficient also.

You may find that you'll find it hard gettingng a centrefire for your first rifle but you may be ok. I have a HMR and they were quite reluctant to issue a 223 with out a mentor condition on my ticket.

A lot of people dispatch charlie with the .17HMR but personally I d feel it is not a big enough calibre to be used as a regular foxing gun.

[Dekers]

So, what distance do you expect to be dealing with the fox?

 

The Hornet is a very useful short to medium range fox tool, .222cf upwards if they are all distant!

 

If you are talking all round the Hay barn, chicken coup, stables, feed store, etc, then maybe even a rimfire.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Dekers

[al4x]

.22cf of either .223 or .222 are ideal as a first fox rifle, if its in a keepering job you don't want to restrict yourself with a hornet it will make you look very amateur when you go for most under keeper jobs. There is no difference when applying all the .22cf's tend to get treated the same by licensing with the possible exception of the .22-250

Anything from .222 up is also legal on muntjac and cwd if you need the ability in the future

[Frenchieboy]

Generally, Lancashire won't condition centrefires for vermin, ground game and fox. It would be useful for you to have .22 centrefire, .17hmr and .22LR in your new position. However, if funds are short and you want a rifle capable of taking foxes up to sensible ranges--up to about 180 yards--as well as rabbits and corvids, you could apply for a .22 Hornet. I don't think they would allow Joe Soap a .22Hornet on first application, but you may prove an exception if you are a gamekeeper and have more experienced rifle users on hand to mentor you. Talk to youyr boss and the FEO at Hutton.

I'm not trying to fault you on your reply, I may even be reading it wrongly but I think that you have things slightly the wrong way round. Generally speaking Lancashire WILL NOT condition Rimfires for fox - Only Centrefires! There are exceptions to this "general" ruling with Lancashire though - They will, in certain cases depending on experience etc allow a .22WMR for fox - I had a .22WMR conditioned for Fox (I am with Lancashire) but I found it a bit restricted on range as the 50g bullets I was using would start to drop off quite quickly after about 120 yards.

Thomas - While I agree that it would be useful to have a Rimfire for vermin and ground game - Either a .22LR or a .17HMR, I have to say that (In my opinion) it would be more advisable for you to have a centrefire to use for foxing The more commonly "recognised" foxing calibres are the .222, .223 and the 22-250. This does not exclude the .22 Hornet or other Centrefire calibres such as the .204, they are all more than capable of dealing with foxes in the right hands.

Another thing well worth thinking about is if you are as you say a "Gamekeepering Student" and wanting to get into gamekeepering as a full time and permenet career then it might well be worth going for a .243 - This would deal with foxes very efficiently and also give you the option for deer to be put on your conditions for the .243 also!

The best advice that I (Or anyone else come to that) can really offer you is that if you are in any doubts about what calibre(s) you might be allowed with Lancashire Firearms Office give one of the staff in the Firearms Office at Hutton a quick ring, you will find that they will do everything that they can to correctly and accurately advise you before you put your application in - I can PM you the phone number if you need it!

Edited March 25, 2013 by Frenchieboy

[kent]

.22cf of either .223 or .222 are ideal as a first fox rifle, if its in a keepering job you don't want to restrict yourself with a hornet it will make you look very amateur when you go for most under keeper jobs. There is no difference when applying all the .22cf's tend to get treated the same by licensing with the possible exception of the .22-250

Anything from .222 up is also legal on muntjac and cwd if you need the ability in the future

Contrary, it will be very use full around the pens- the quietist moderated CF. My neighbour used one through his training period eventually shooting it out (think he rusted it out personally like most keepers). As he is now in charge of a large Grouse moor under 30 yrs old he aint done too bad. There are other keepers I can think of on this site that use hornets in .22 and .17 so you might need to justify calling them Amateur as an amateur yourself a bit later on LOL. Lancs can be a fussy bunch as Frenchie has indicted and .17 rem / .22 hornet have their own little section in guidance notes to police and that's for good reason

[al4x]

bear in mind most keepers won't use a gun round a pen and rely on alternative fox catching techniques the hornet is not the foxing tool of most keepers, or at least not the sole fox gun for any that I can think of round here. Why restrict yourself apply for what you need for any half decent sized estate most foxing is done from high seats or a vehicle and having a bit of reach is always a good thing.

[CharlieT]

bear in mind most keepers won't use a gun round a pen and rely on alternative fox catching techniques the hornet is not the foxing tool of most keepers, or at least not the sole fox gun for any that I can think of round here. Why restrict yourself apply for what you need for any half decent sized estate most foxing is done from high seats or a vehicle and having a bit of reach is always a good thing.

Exactly, if my keeper turned up with a hornet as his sole foxing tool I'd begin to wonder if I'd hired the right man for the job.

 

Get yourself the ubiquitous .223.

[kent]

bear in mind most keepers won't use a gun round a pen and rely on alternative fox catching techniques the hornet is not the foxing tool of most keepers, or at least not the sole fox gun for any that I can think of round here. Why restrict yourself apply for what you need for any half decent sized estate most foxing is done from high seats or a vehicle and having a bit of reach is always a good thing.

Never said it was, its something light to carry when feeding and checking those "main methods" of fox control that's also capable of many other smaller tasks quite well. Lamping on a windswept moor, sitting quietly in the truck covering a lot of ground at first light- no! Armature? certainly not

[kent]

Exactly, if my keeper turned up with a hornet as his sole foxing tool I'd begin to wonder if I'd hired the right man for the job.

 

Get yourself the ubiquitous .223.

if a fully competent and trained up qualified mature keeper turned up and he only had one gun likewise, but in my experience of full time employed keepers the boss pays for a small arsenal of gear. I doubt as Tom is just starting out he falls into that class and a cheap enough hard wearing versatile gun capable of putting many thousands of rounds down its tube without burning out its throat or emptying the kitty in practice sessions might be a good bet

[Cottonseed]

Yes, Frenchie, and others. It was a rushed reply. What I wanted to say is that Lancashire are not happy, generally, about allowing a .22 centrefire calibre rifle to be conditioned for vermin shooting, by which i mean rabbits and corvids. In my experience it's fox only. In the past have been told I can't use .223 and .222 for rabbit and corvids, so I have a Hornet for those and foxes.. My principal concern for the OP's question was his limited budget. Professional, or not, you can kill rabbits, crows and foxes with a Hornet.

[al4x]

Never said it was, its something light to carry when feeding and checking those "main methods" of fox control that's also capable of many other smaller tasks quite well. Lamping on a windswept moor, sitting quietly in the truck covering a lot of ground at first light- no! Armature? certainly not

 

So you are saying he needs two rifles...........

 

The main method of fox control round here is lamping and sitting out in high seats away from pens so you don't disturb birds, ones caught in snares usually get despatched quietly so having just a hornet would be a serious restriction

[Albert 888]

I'm looking into buying my first rifle soon as I've just started working on an estate for a gamekeeper part time and want something to deal with old Charlie? Any suggestions on make/calibre? I'm also a gamekeeping student so money isn't great but open to ideas!

 

Thanks.

.223 cz 527 and mod for fox. But you may find starting with a 22rf for vermin and the. 223 for foxfirst would be better in the eys of the feo.

 

Tom.

[joe soapy]

good bit of advice i picked up on the net was, When you get your scope, dont immediatly put it on your expensive to shoot rifle. stick it on an air or rim fire and get used to the turrets and reticule.

Do a few shooting the box exercises, What you dont want is to mount it on the centrefire and then spend a fortune on ammo, only to find out you dont like it , or something is wrong with the turrets

[kent]

So you are saying he needs two rifles...........

 

The main method of fox control round here is lamping and sitting out in high seats away from pens so you don't disturb birds, ones caught in snares usually get despatched quietly so having just a hornet would be a serious restriction

No I am not though he will build on it in time, .22 rf, something bigger and a small arsenal of shotguns of various types no doubt! Lancashire fields are not all that big as a generalisation the arable areas are flat with ditches all round so your never likely to be further than 200 max away and are often without great backstops if there is no built up embankment etc, on the Hills like round here a .50 BMG might not have the legs for some shots but if they are too far they are too far. I would say a .243 is ideal for any ground foxing but he like as not wont get it granted, its way too much gun for most foxing land in lancs (especially so round Preston were he the op comes from) and not as quiet or handy as the hornet- yes its as quiet or quieter than a HMR when moderated and certainly during non critical times that's a good thing for a keeper on his rounds, chances of multiple crows also increase, perfect for dispatching snared foxes. There are not many high seats round Lancashire as much of the land has no deer at all on it Edited March 27, 2013 by kent

[Guest]

Thanks for all the info guys! I've since been out with the boss and his .22-250 and really liked it! Just wondering what rifles to put down on my application? I was going to put down .22lr, .17hmr and either a .22-250 or a .223 and a multi-shot shotgun for when I'm on my rounds... Will this be ok? Also do you have to apply for moderators?