fac air or .17

[marc020]

Hi all,I would like to apply for my fac in the next few weeks mainly for rabbits,currently i have a AA s 410 and was wondering if it was worth fac'ing it or if I should just go for a .17 or.22,is it worth the cost of converting to fac etc,would it benefit me any more,id like to be able to get a bit of extra distance mainly,also does any one know if its easier to get an fac for air rifle.i have some land that is already checked for fac and some that's not

[Salop Matt]

I would say it depends on the land? any maps, images or google maps screen shots ?

 

If your not shooting fox then i would go FAC air as you already have the charging/refilling equipment and the ammo is cheaper when you use ppellets and dont have to account for the ammo either ! Am happy out to 70yards but going to work on 80 in .22 @30ftlb.

 

[bruno22rf]

If its Rabbits then go for a .22lr-.17 is far too noisy to clear Rabbits.22lr's are cheap as chips-you can get a scoped CZ for around £250 that will kill bunnies till the cows come home if you use subs and a moderater-price of rounds is not worth considering unless you use a couple of hundred a night.Dont be fooled into thinking that a .22 sub is not up to the job-its quieter than any FAC airgun that I have ever heard,is less bothered by the wind and carries enough energy at 100 yards to kill a man.With a bipod fitted and decent ammo (Eley or RWS in my case) the gun will head shoot rabbits at 100 yards in the right conditions-maybe more if you are good enough.

[four-wheel-drive]

If its Rabbits then go for a .22lr-.17 is far too noisy to clear Rabbits.22lr's are cheap as chips-you can get a scoped CZ for around £250 that will kill bunnies till the cows come home if you use subs and a moderater-price of rounds is not worth considering unless you use a couple of hundred a night.Dont be fooled into thinking that a .22 sub is not up to the job-its quieter than any FAC airgun that I have ever heard,is less bothered by the wind and carries enough energy at 100 yards to kill a man.With a bipod fitted and decent ammo (Eley or RWS in my case) the gun will head shoot rabbits at 100 yards in the right conditions-maybe more if you are good enough.

I second you on that .22rf rifles are cheep as chips to buy and do not go wrong with a good moderater they are much better than air where you have got the bother of filling tanks and luging them around and filling the gun with rf all you need is a gun with a scope and a mod and a box of bullets and you are off.

[Salop Matt]

And if your not extreamly carefull its so prone to ricochetts. I got rid of my .22lr on here because of this very reason and that was after about 2 months of ownership. Also you can in places shoot FAC air up hill which i simply wouldnt do ever here in the UK !

[mick miller]

I'm with salop, my rapid at 28fpe does everything a 22lr can do without all the horrendously heart stopping ricochets!

[SakoQuad]

You might regret having your AA 410 uprated to FAC to be honest. The shot capacity will be pretty limited before needing to refill, probably 20 to 25 and the gun will lose value as well - you can't undo the making it a FAC rifle either. You don't say if it's .22 or .177

 

On the plus side you would extend range to around 50 / 60 yards and it is cheaper than rim fire to run and your police force might be happier with FAC airgun BUT don't let that influence your decision.

 

Decide what you want on the basis of where you will be shooting, what you want to shoot, whether you want to eat what you shoot and what range would be most common. Many people will quote much longer ranges but air to 50, .22lr to 75 and .17HMR to 100 yards max is a good starting point. If you are already an accomplished shot these distances are very extendible in the right conditions.

 

.22 lr has the promise of heart stopping ricochets but is quiet and effective doesn't damage meat much. Air rifle needs you to know holdover, a bit noisier, ricochets not really a problem and doesn't damage meat, HMR flat accurate shooting from 20 to 80 yards plus, noisy because of bullet breaking sound barrier, no ricochet issues as a rule but destroys meat unless you use head shots.

 

Hope that helps a bit

[Alycidon]

22 FAC will extend your killing distance to maybe 60 yards in decent conditions, further perhaps for a pre charged. 22LR using subbies is not as accurate and 75 yards is about as far as you will want to go with it unless you have a mill dot ret or similar. Yes they will kill far further but you need to master the drops and you cant do that with a standard duplex as you only have one other aim point.

 

Richoctes are an issue with 22LR which is why many forces now prefer to issue 17HMR rather than 22LR. The HMR is a whole new world rangewise with far longer legs.

 

A

[team tractor]

I'm an airgunner at heart but I'm so impressed with my hmr . Tonight I shot another at around 80 yards and it almost took its head off again .

[Salop Matt]

A shooting friend of mine mine has just had a .177 FAC Ripley turned down to sub 12 ftlb and west mercia have taken it off ticket for him ! so it can be done !

 

HMR out to 120yards and thats still head shooting and am only a very average shot but dont struggle with this.

.22lr out to 65/70 yards with range finder and mildots

.22 FAC AIR @ 30 ftlb out to 60 yards but single shot loading and some practise i hope to push out to 75 yards on still conditions.

[marc020]

The s410 is .22,I had a daystate x2 in .177 but after a chat with local game keeper .22 seemed the better option,he has a daystate (air ranger I think)in .22 and loves it but that is adjustable up to 49fbp,

Looks like cheaper option could be to go .17 hr

I'll add that to forms and see what happens.

I was only thinking about air rifle options as a lot of people say its easier to get your fac that way

[bruno22rf]

I dont understand ,Salop sniper,how your FAC air at 30ft/lb can match (and you suggest exceed) a .22lr range wise with a .22lr capable of quadrupling your Airguns power and ,using something akin to Tenex,will clover leaf at well over 100 yards? I'm considering getting shot of my Rimmy now.

[Axeman1984]

I'm going through exactly the same thing at the moment marc, I've submitted my F.A.C forms and have my interview next Thursday morning, I wasn't sure which route to go down so I've put in for 3, an FAC air rifle .22 rim fire and a 17hmr, I think I'm going to go down the air rifle route should I be granted a ticket, but I've put in for the rifles as well just so it gives me some options later, the land I have permission on was surveyed in 2010 and was given the thumbs up for right upto a .243 which is handy, so just a case of waiting and seeing what unfolds for me now...

[team tractor]

I'm going through exactly the same thing at the moment marc, I've submitted my F.A.C forms and have my interview next Thursday morning, I wasn't sure which route to go down so I've put in for 3, an FAC air rifle .22 rim fire and a 17hmr, I think I'm going to go down the air rifle route should I be granted a ticket, but I've put in for the rifles as well just so it gives me some options later, the land I have permission on was surveyed in 2010 and was given the thumbs up for right upto a .243 which is handy, so just a case of waiting and seeing what unfolds for me now...

Don't go air ,lr and hmr as they wouldn't grant me as they all do the same job so they say theirs no need . I got .223 ,lr ,hmr on my first ticket recently

[Salop Matt]

Bruno22rf,

All am saying is I use .22FAC Air at 30ftlb to 60yards.

If someone is only going to use .22lr to 60yards then the same result is acheived either way. It doesnt matter if the lr is 100x more powerfull than the FAC if you gont use it passed that point.

 

So shooting bunnys to 60 yards I prefer .22 FAC Air for me and my land and am also happy in places to shoot up in the air to take crow pigeon, squirrel and magpie as it isnt as powerful as the .22LR and not going to carry as for with as much retained energy.

 

Accuracy over distance would be won easily by the .22lr but both will do much the same job to 60 yards, its beyond that where the .22lr win`s.

 

For me over 60 yards the HMR is my chosen tool, sub 60yard work my FAC air is the tool of choice with the option in places to shoot up into trees where safe to do so and theres far fewer ricocetts with the .22 Air and i dont have to worry about ammo limits when it comes to posetion.

[happyshooter]

Fac air is very useful, i use it at different power levels on different shoots, where rimfires are not useable due

to land layout, and yes i own rimfires in .22Lr &17hmr so fac air in .22 at 30 fpe gives you a very useful tool

with a great deal of different uses. fac air wll always have a slot in my gun cabinet!!!!

atb brian

Edited April 17, 2013 by happyshooter

[Axeman1984]

I've got 7 acres that I own myself which I'm hopping on Thursday he will approve for FAC air, I can't see him granting any higher calibre on it, so that's why I've put in for that, I've got a 400 acre permission which is a council farm that my uncle has and that's been surveyed in 2010 and given the thumbs up for upto a .243, the land there is really flinty so that's what the .17hmr is for, then I've also got a 2000 acre permission which I've been shooting on for years which has been ok'ed for right upto a .308 that land is lovely black fen soil no flint so that's where I'll be using the .22lr, should I be deemed a suitable applicant and granted a ticket that is...

[vampire]

You will have learnt ranges/mildots from use of you air guns,so fac air will seem like a natural progression,my mate has one and it will match my cz .22lr to my amazement everytime and no wild richochettes to worry about,he also has a .17hmr which is now our favoured rabbit clearence gun and the noisiest and the most expensive to feed.

We are using the fac on the paddocks when crops are to tall to see rabbits,harvest time its shotguns but rest of time its either the .22lr or hmr.

 

Fac air,you have the charging gear and its cheap to feed v .22lr same range,more expensive to feed and dangerous richos

.17 hmr,point and shoot,the most expensive to feed,noisy and ruins the meat,half the range again of the above.

[bruno22rf]

Still struggling to believe what I'm reading-FAC Air so far (according to previous posts) has greater range than .22lr (thats what your post reads SS) and will match a CZ.22 EVERYTIME.I can only assume that you never shoot Rabbits at 100 yards with your lr's -as for the ,17 being a better tool for serious bunny control I must live in an area where the wildlife is blessed with sharp hearing cos one shot with a Hummer clears land of all living things for 1/2 mile-the .22 with subs on the other hand can be used to clear several rabbits before a group gets wise and scarpers,you can usually carry on then and do the same in the next field.I sometimes wonder if people,even those who have them,realise just what an effective round the humble .22lr is.

[Salop Matt]

bruno22rf, I can’t see that I have said "FAC Air has greater range than .22lr and will match a CZ.22 EVERYTIME".

 

How ever the rest of us seem to be in agreement....@ 60 yards with the shot in the right place (equally easy enough to pull a shot with both) FAC Air and .22lr will kill bunny cleanly. Also both are very accurate at this range (60 yards).

 

The .22lr may be shootable to 100 yards if the shooter and setup is capable, competent and happy to. With my .22lr I was not happy to shoot out to 100 yards with mine so restricted my shots to 60-70 yards.

 

The second part of what I was getting at is: Once the round (be it .22lr or .22 pellet) has passed through the rabbits head the .22lr carries more energy and is prone to ricochets which I am not comfortable with and so for me .22lr had to go and I favoured .22 FAC AIR.

 

Without a doubt it is possible to shoot a .22lr out way further than a FAC AIR, but the caveat that comes with the nature of the .22lr is that it is very prone to ricochet. Not an issue for some but not acceptable / workable for others and FAC AIR is an excellent substitute for .22lr.

 

I also shoot my HMR over an air field which is very open and my HMR doesn’t scare everything off for ½ a mile around and when I lamp for my best mate he uses his HMR on a dairy farm and we shoot plenty on there without it scaring quarry off. But the HMR VS .22LR is a whole other debate and many will disagree with you as well as agree with you. Also Malc Barnard showed recently on one of his youtube clips where multiple bunnies were shot close together without them all running off.

 

We clearly have two different views on this so perhaps best to agree to disagree, there’s enough threads on hear that spiral down hill and I don’t want to see this one do that.

 

ATB

 

Matt

[simon6ppc]

i use fac air and rimfire, to me its down to how safe the land is, i love using both but the safe factor i go for, and usualy its the fac air that wins, but any of the two in the right hands can shoot rabbits up to 70 yards it you know your stuff.cheers simon

[bruno22rf]

SS.your third post states that .22lr out to 60-70 yards and your FAC air out to 60 but you are hoping to push this out to 75.

The comment regarding the FAC air matching the .22lr "everytime" was made by Vampire-I never implied that the remark was yours and apologise if my post was misleading.

In my opinion,having spent far too much of my life behind various firearms (and I,m not trying to belittle Airguns cos I have spent a kings ransom on them over the years and love using them) the .22lr blows the FAC air into the weeds in 99% of shooting scenario's-even at 60 yards if there is any wind then the higher velocity and heavier bullet makes the Rimmie so much more easy and effective than the FAC air.I'm left wondering now why you restrict your lr to the shorter ranges?If it wont clover leaf at 100 yards then maybe there is something not quite tickety boo with it? The only other reason I can think of is (and I mean this with the greatest respect) that you are simply not confident shooting at longer ranges-in which case I can see why the FAC air is the better option.

[Salop Matt]

Bruno, I found the .22lr to loopy to remember the aim points past 60 yards. But shooting a millitary working airfield with a railway line through it also,I am very carefull what i use and corvids need to be taken also, so the FAC AIR does my day time covids, bunnys at night on my small holding permitions and the HMR does my fox and bunnys on the airfeild at night when noise isnt an issue!

If i had kept my .22lr i would still be looking for FAC air for the day time corvid bashing as the shotgun would attract to much attention noise wise and i would want more range and knock down power for the corvids. My small holding have sheep, horses, chickens etc roaming around also the close proxtimity to buildings and roads mean that i would be uncofortable witht he .22lr.

I couldnt tell you what it did at 100yards as i zeroed at 40 and shot to 60ish yards, but quickly got rid of it and that was 2-3 years ago !

 

With the HMR am happy to shoot out to 100-120 yards as its so easy to shoot so holding still isnt the issue, it was remembering aim points and having to range find each time as my range estimation is poor to account for the 22lr`s drop. The HMR is almost point and shoot and so is the FAC air zeroed at 35yards out to 50yards and its only .5mildot at 55 and 1mildot at 60yards if i keep it on 10x mag !

[vampire]

my mate has one and it will match my cz .22lr to my amazement everytime and no wild richochettes to worry about,he also has a .17hmr which is now our favoured rabbit clearence gun and the noisiest and the most expensive to feed.

 

 

The comment regarding the FAC air matching the .22lr "everytime" was made by Vampire

Bruno22rf,you have now quoted me twice, wrongly and yes,its a match and i am amazed everytime we use the s510 .22 it is a superb rifle,the furthest i have shot my .22lr is just over 100yrds,but i no longer push it out that far for fear of richos,such a dangerous round.

We did a session earlier this year on a range with targets from 40yrds upto 100yrds,using a s200 .177/s510 .22/cz .22lr/cz .17hmr and cz .223 most were predictable results, but the s510 .22 would do what the s200 and cz .22lr would do,and yes i was amazed everytime that an fac air rifle could shoot that far and still go through 18mm chipboard.

[bruno22rf]

I must be missing summit-did you or did you not clearly state that your m8's FAC air matches your cz.22 everytime-where have I miss quoted you? And still trying to find how an FAC air gun firing an approx 20gr pellet at just over 900fps can match the 22lr firing a 32 gr bullet at up to 1700fps-without even mentioning the limited shot count of the 510 extra that ,I assumne,you are using for comparison.

Edited April 19, 2013 by bruno22rf