JDog Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 And for all of you posting very intelligent stuff, please keep to the topic and let us know what you think of Glucosamine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 And for all of you posting very intelligent stuff, please keep to the topic and let us know what you think of Glucosamine. took it for a while when i had chronic tennis elbow , and i mean chronic . i could,nt even pull my socks up , but i also had 4 cortisone injections , so 50/50 which worked better. tempted to try a better quality all in one again for my knees and hip pain , but read in this thread about it increasing cholesterol which is a worry as i already have trouble with that because of fatty liver disease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Guys There is a lot of odd stuff being written here, and frankly some of it beggars belief, I am not going to get into an argument with anybody but suggest you talk to your GP rather than take some of the very dubious info posted here as gospel Doc Never a truer word said, I shiver at interwebs medical advice. The NSAID comment from the 'osteo' made me splutter. Doc, are you a Doc? Edited April 28, 2013 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 I know at least two people on PW who's wives are doctors.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 I know at least two people on PW who's wives are doctors.. Add mine, I'm also a allied health professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Never a truer word said, I shiver at interwebs medical advice. The NSAID comment from the 'osteo' made me splutter. Doc, are you a Doc? I am (Orthopaedic) But remember that your well meaning GP usually has to rely on Information provided to him in biased reports made by profiteering pharma companies , has no training in statistics so would be unable to decipher the pharma companies data if ever they were to make it all available (which they dont because they own the research and only want you to know what profits them) and that your GP has usually recieved no training whatsoever in nutrition , add to this the fact that for the last thirty or so years all this biased information he has been receiving has been based on even more biased information and dodgy trials and you might get an idea of what a pickle the medical profession is in at the moment Hopefully nobody reading this believes one bit of the above post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) OK here is the medical opinion There is no scientific proof that Glucosamine or Chondroitin have a measurable effect on Degenerative disease, ie arthritis. However on the plus side both are naturally occurring substances that have no side effects in the recommended doses My experience is that between 20 - 30 % of my patients report an improvement in symptoms on taking it, If I gave everybody a yellow smartie there would be a significant number who would report an improvement in symptoms So as there are no side effects and the whole aim is to get an improvement in symptoms I tell my patients to try it if they want but if they feel no difference after 3/12 to stop spending their money Unfortunately we (The medical profession) are not very good at treating arthritis except at the end stage when a joint replacement is treatment of choice. I find that when there is no known cure there are a lot of myths etc about what works and ways in which people can be separated from their money Edited April 28, 2013 by docholiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Well anyway, all of the nay sayers and the experts have had their say. I am the biggest doubter (about everything) there is and a confirmed sceptic (there is a difference) about most things. My two pennyworth is that I started to take Glucosamine and Marine Chondroitin after I had developed a very painful case of tennis elbow. I have already posted that I could hardly carry and mount my gun as the pain was so severe. Whether it was the tablets or the passage of time I am not sure, but the pain has now gone and I am back mounting the gun in a pain free way. I still take two tablets a day. I may try 'yellow smarties' in the future if the pain comes back. I'm all for an effective placebo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 OK here is the medical opinion There is no scientific proof that Glucosamine or Chondroitin have a measurable effect on Degenerative disease, ie arthritis. However on the plus side both are naturally occurring substances that have no side effects in the recommended doses My experience is that between 20 - 30 % of my patients report an improvement in symptoms on taking it, If I gave everybody a yellow smartie there would be a significant number who would report an improvement in symptoms So as there are no side effects and the whole aim is to get an improvement in symptoms I tell my patients to try it if they want but if they feel no difference after 3/12 to stop spending their money Unfortunately we (The medical profession) are not very good at treating arthritis except at the end stage when a joint replacement is treatment of choice. I find that when there is no known cure there are a lot of myths etc about what works and ways in which people can be separated from their money Isn't that the nail on the head, as you've said it does need to be offset against the placebo effect (which is worth a million pounds), but also people need to be aware that complimentary medicine is purely that, although the NHS accept CAM, I don't, alternative medicine has no voice in my opinion, they are closely coupled, one more dangerour than the other. Well anyway, all of the nay sayers and the experts have had their say. I am the biggest doubter (about everything) there is and a confirmed sceptic (there is a difference) about most things. My two pennyworth is that I started to take Glucosamine and Marine Chondroitin after I had developed a very painful case of tennis elbow. I have already posted that I could hardly carry and mount my gun as the pain was so severe. Whether it was the tablets or the passage of time I am not sure, but the pain has now gone and I am back mounting the gun in a pain free way. I still take two tablets a day. I may try 'yellow smarties' in the future if the pain comes back. I'm all for an effective placebo. Not nay saying, the learned orthobod has said, that up to 3 out of 10 cats say it works, so if it has for you, brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Add mine, I'm also a allied health professional. I had already added yours Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 I had already added yours Gordon Ah so its still two then Gord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Three's a crowd anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 OK here is the medical opinion However on the plus side both are naturally occurring substances that have no side effects in the recommended doses So as there are no side effects and the whole aim is to get an improvement in symptoms If that is the case, why are some of the symptoms I had,which disappeared when I stopped taking them, listed under side effects on www.webmd.com. Now, obviously I cannot be sure that I didn't pick up a bug or eat something but none of the family and the couple of people I've been in contact with (I'm retired) over just the few days I'd been taking the tablets are all fit and healthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Afraid thats not scientific information just an assumption, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Afraid thats not scientific information just an assumption, Sorry, doc, utter layman here. I don't understand which is the assumption. Do you mean my runs, which I agree could be due to anything or do you mean the side effects listed as detailed which someone has specified as they assumed there may be the odd instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 You getting the trotts, it may well have been due to the tablets but it is not proven, only coincidental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 You getting the trotts, it may well have been due to the tablets but it is not proven, only coincidental Agreed. So can I take it that in spite of your earlier comment about lack of side effects, there are indeed some as published. The warfarin mention was interesting should you already be taking that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 I think your comments are valid but generally it is a safe thing to take even porridge can have side effects !! I go back to my original comment and that is to talk to your GP if you have any concerns and dont listen to internet experts everybody is different ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Its an interesting one and I personally am a sceptic and agree that though naturally occuring just because you eat it doesn't necessarily mean any gets anywhere near your joints. The only thing I can add is I had an ex with a horse that she used to pump full of it as though it was a wonder drug and I am still sure it worked more on her than the horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 I think your comments are valid but generally it is a safe thing to take even porridge can have side effects !! I go back to my original comment and that is to talk to your GP if you have any concerns and dont listen to internet experts everybody is different ! Thanks for your patience, doc. Yours is good advice. Failing to have checked with the GP on this one and assuming your problem was an overdose of porridge when in fact it was an interaction of the tablets with your prescribed warfarin wouldn't be too clever. If this possibility is as severe as is indicated, perhaps this one problem should be noted on the tub in addition to checking with the GP prior to taking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 I have had huge benefits from this in ellviating two bouts of sciatica, one through inflamation and the other through prolapsed disc. Wish that I had know about this 13 years ago when I had a discectomy and fusion for another prolapsed disc. Western acupuncture works very well for tendinitis and muscle spasm. It causes intramuscular bleeds which provides calcium via the blood replenishing used stores. This chemical allows the actin and myosin fibres to unlock and release the muscle. It is also used to cause acute inflammation which starts a healing process in chronic conditions. Big chemical reaction which isn't worth going into unless you are fascinated by physiology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 You getting the trotts, it may well have been due to the tablets but it is not proven, only coincidental It more likely to be the 10 pints and Indian from the night before!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Hopefully nobody reading this believes one bit of the above post I think enough of us have read his drivel to have him sussed. His username is apt, but he might re-register as twistedlogic as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1978 Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 OK here is the medical opinion There is no scientific proof that Glucosamine or Chondroitin have a measurable effect on Degenerative disease, ie arthritis. However on the plus side both are naturally occurring substances that have no side effects in the recommended doses My experience is that between 20 - 30 % of my patients report an improvement in symptoms on taking it, If I gave everybody a yellow smartie there would be a significant number who would report an improvement in symptoms So as there are no side effects and the whole aim is to get an improvement in symptoms I tell my patients to try it if they want but if they feel no difference after 3/12 to stop spending their money Unfortunately we (The medical profession) are not very good at treating arthritis except at the end stage when a joint replacement is treatment of choice. I find that when there is no known cure there are a lot of myths etc about what works and ways in which people can be separated from their money Doc has it all covered here, side effects have to be statistically proved along with benefits. No proven benefits and no proven side effects. Patient information leaflets are a nightmare and if you look at one 99/100 the top two S/E are headache and nausea, strangely two of the commonest symptoms that can't be "measured" by any means! A German study a few years ago claimed a statistical benefit in glucosamine and this encouraged NHS prescribing for quite a while at considerable expense due the unique way the NHS is run. More recently though as Doc has said there is no proof so you need to buy it yourself. I too tend to recommend 3 months of 1500mg, preferably with chondroitin to see if there are any improvement but still warn about the shellfish allergy thing. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Doc has it all covered here, side effects have to be statistically proved along with benefits. No proven benefits and no proven side effects. Patient information leaflets are a nightmare and if you look at one 99/100 the top two S/E are headache and nausea, strangely two of the commonest symptoms that can't be "measured" by any means! A German study a few years ago claimed a statistical benefit in glucosamine and this encouraged NHS prescribing for quite a while at considerable expense due the unique way the NHS is run. More recently though as Doc has said there is no proof so you need to buy it yourself. I too tend to recommend 3 months of 1500mg, preferably with chondroitin to see if there are any improvement but still warn about the shellfish allergy thing. Joe As said, layman here. With regard to the patient information sheets and the symptoms that cannot be measured are you (and possibly doc should he come back on this one) saying that the detailed warfarin interaction is also similarly in doubt? Perhaps I should have said unproven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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