A bit of a shock

[Paul@Ribchester]

I put my very well bred black lab to an expensive stud dog nine weeks ago this coming Saturday. At 1st we thought she hadn't taken but over the last few weeks it was obvious she had. I got her whelping box ready and was doing everything by the book including taking her temperature and plotting it on a graph.

Anyway been out for a good few beers with the lads yesterday afternoon, wobbled home to a large glass of red and slow roasted lamb, lovely evening until ten to nine when my seven year old came running through. "Daddy, I think Nettle has a puppy in her mouth". Dashed into kitchen and sure enough puppy number one suckling away like a good one. No big temperature drop, no nesting/panting or anything else...Time to sober up and quickly, camp bed out whelping kit at the ready 9:28 out pops number two. What's that on her chest? Oh no a small white patch. Quick look at pup number one and yep same little white patch on her chest too. Bang penny drops, my Springer woody has obviously done the deed inbetween the stud dog been there.

 

Nine very healthy Springadors later and less than half an hours sleep I'm thinking I know they will be great working dogs but how am I going to sell them?? Also will I get my stud fee back?

 

Hope this gives you an afternoon chuckle.

 

I'm on my phone at the moment but I'll get some pictures up soon...

Edited April 29, 2013 by Paul@Ribchester

[al4x]

not sure on stud fee back but I would guess you will sell them all be it a lot cheaper than if they were full pedigree. On the upside you won't have to register them so that is one cost out of the way.

 

I'm a bit behind you, mine is currently staying with an expensive stud dog and I know I'd be gutted if they came out as anything other than what they are meant to.

[PERCE]

A white star on the chest is not uncommon with Labradors. With two different dogs in there you could also get a split litter with each dog being the sire of some of the pups. DNA testing is the only sure way to tell.

Edited April 29, 2013 by PERCE

[Longy0710]

I have recently had a litter of Fox Red Labradors of which 4 out of 6 had a white flash on their front, no chance of anything other than the Stud dog having mated with my bitch.

 

Like PERCE says DNA testing only sure fire way to tell.

[Paul@Ribchester]

Now that is interesting, I will ring the vet. Just goes to show you peoples knowledge in here is second to none.

 

Ouch, £90 each for dogs x 2 mum and a puppy. £360. Shall I just wait and see....??

Edited April 29, 2013 by Paul@Ribchester

[pontbeck]

The payment of the stud fee is for the dog to mate your bitch irrespective of whether she has pups or not. Most stud dog owners will give another free mating if the bitch does not take but as your bitch pupped I can't see you have a case to ask for a refund, as it's up to you to avoid an unwanted mating.

[JDog]

Many Labradors of high breeding have white chest markings. I think that you have panicked too soon.

[fenboy]

I just brought a labrador puppy out of a litter of 8 half had white chest patches , apparently they often close up leaving no trace .

[pontbeck]

Very common for working Labs to have white hairs on their chest, which disappear when adult. However this bitch has whelped a week early from her due date on the Lab mating and in over 20 litters of pups I've never had one whelp that early.

[Fat Dog]

My black lab bitch whelped 11 pups last year, 1 had a white spot on chest and 1 a white stripe on chest. Seen both of these dogs lately and both have no sign of marking. Dont panic just yet. Also, if you read up on the breed you will find it is quite common.

[al4x]

I guess one main question is how confident are you that you kept the springer away from her for long enough

[pontbeck]

If the Springer`s the father he got to her before the Lab mating

[fenboy]

At least if worse come to worse you can make working dogs out of springadors and they seem to make a fair bit for a mongrel

[DOLLSEYES]

My black lab bitch was born with a white patch on her chest.

[Paul@Ribchester]

Thanks for the replays (I think) the stud dog was new to the game, from what I saw he was a good few inches away on each attempt. When I intervened my girl just sat down, I kept him at my house for about five days then my bitch went to his for a night. My springer was interested but he's only just reached maturity and my girl growled at him every time he went anywhere near her. I mated her because she is an exceptional dog and I wanted one or two of her puppies, not for financial gain.

The pups are all doing really well, Nettle is shattered. Constantly mopping up and feeding.

[lee-kinsman]

Just want to say that Paul's Lab bitch has got to be the best lab I've seen. She is phenomenal and has some real work drive. He has worked her on our duck shoot in total darkness she picked about 40 duck, and a few snipe. At the end of the shoot she always looked at us as if to say, "Is that all you've shot?"

Before each duck flight, she had been working on a driven pheasant shoot.

 

I hope your pups prove pedigree mate, but if not, no worries if they turn out half as good as Nettle they'll be brilliant dogs for any working home.

 

ATB,

Lee

[WGD]

You're never going to know without DNA testing, some lab x springers look just like labs... and in your case they could well be!

 

Although Pontbeck makes a very valid point, you don't hear of many litters a week early.

[PERCE]

Based on your last post, did you or anybody else actually see the labs tie?

 

I actually find how you've mated your bitch both naive & haphazard but you're certainly not alone in breeding like this. 10 minutes of googling can supply most of what you need to know. You should be keeping records of when you're bitch is due in season & then testing her each morning to see if she's broken down. You'd then know when you should be taking her to a stud dog. I'd never be leaving a bitch of mine with anybody else & always ensure I'm there at the mating, I then know for sure who is the father. When I exercise a bitch during season I never leave her unsupervised. If I was paying money for an expensive stud dog I'd certainly be expecting a great deal of expertise from his owner, most linings I've seen need a helping hand of some kind or another. I don't see being on my hands & knees for 1/2 an hour in a snow storm holding two dogs to mate any different to being the nurse maid at the whelping. (******* hell it was cold & I had to do it twice )

Having said this you've now got a litter, they're healthy & so is your bitch, life's been lucky for you, some aren't as lucky. So what can you do now? Sell them for £500 - £600 KC registered as Labradors? What happens if a purchaser comes back to you 6 months later with a very Springer like pup? Sorry but if you plan to do that the DNA test is your only route, as you've posted it's not about the money, is it?

Edited April 30, 2013 by PERCE

[Paul@Ribchester]

Lee, thanks for your kind words regarding Nettle. PERCE, I take on board what your saying. I personally know the owners of the stud dog as I do some training with them. They know about the situation and are more than willing to give me the stud fee back if they turn out to be mixed breed. As I mentioned I tried my hardest to get the to tie but my girl just kept sitting as I approached and no amount of persuading could make her move.

 

With regards to your comment regarding KC registering them, there is no way I would even consider doing that, I have enough local interest in the pups from people who wanted a pup from my lab regardless of who the father is, they have seen my Springer working and would be happy if he was the dad. No I won't get £750 or whatever for them but I'm not bothered about that. I'm really not willing to front £1120 to the vet to find out they are Springadors though.

 

Anyway, all nine pups still doing really well, I got a bit more sleep on the camp bed next to the whelping box last night! Nettle is going to the toilet as normal outside, she even had a minute relaxing in the warm sun just now. I'm having to do quite a bit of swapping which nipple the pups are on as the bigger ones get a good one and stay attached! Nettle has two more nipples at the front containing milk today, they weren't there yesterday and are a bit hairy but they are needed.

 

Struggling to upload pictures as using a Google tablet not a PC.

 

All comments are appreciated. Even negative ones....

[al4x]

Ok have a look here, obviously it is for your own satisfaction so you know if you have pedigree pups or not

 

http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/IdentityAndParenting.jsp?catID=DogsPar

 

might be worth testing a pup first then if that comes back lab then test the rest.

 

As for the not tieing etc I feel your pain I spent sunday afternoon with mine and a stud dog and she was very close but wouldn't quite let him, both on their first time and boy could you tell

 

Monday job done decent tie and she is still there and they will be put together again tomorrow and then she will come home.

Edited April 30, 2013 by al4x

[pontbeck]

Another question , did the stud enter your bitch ? They don't have to tie .

I had a litter from a slip mating where the dog was entered for less than 10 seconds. The dog was no longer interested and the bitch wouldn't have let him if he was.

It may be worthwhile having a pup tested

 

Bill

[Paul@Ribchester]

Hi Bill, I never saw him enter but my bitch did stay the night at their house and the dogs owner said they were trying all night.

 

Ten seconds wow, I'll tell my missus that it can be that quick then she won't give me such a hard time when I come out with my excuses....!!!

[hedd-wyn]

 

 

Ten seconds wow, I'll tell my missus that it can be that quick then she won't give me such a hard time when I come out with my excuses....!!!

 

Ten seconds it a victory in our house

[lee-kinsman]

Ten seconds, if I could do that I'd get away with it every time the missus falls asleep.

[pontbeck]

I've started something here