tjm160 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) A friend has a new Savage 93BTVS in .22 WMR. He's fired 250 rounds and still can't get the group size at 100m less than 4 inches. I was next to him shooting 1 inch groups with my .17 HMR. We swapped rifles and lo and behold my group with his WMR was 4 inches and his 1 inch with my HMR, so that rules out the shooter. I understand it can take a few hundred rounds through a new barrel until it settles down, but by 250 rounds surely it should be starting to settle? From what I've read in other threads, I believe the WMR is known to not deliver quite as tight groups as the HMR, but is 4 inch really what one should expect from a WMR? He's already swapped the scope and now has a new Hawke. Thanks in advance for any guidance / suggestions. Edited June 8, 2013 by tjm160 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 I had an HMR like that. I tried pretty much everything. So the suspects are: Dirty/fouled barrel.........major intensive clean with copper solvent Dodgy scope.........try another known to be ok Round clipping the moderator ( if it has one)..Look for evidence of clipping, and try without the mod Barrel crown problem.....burr from manufacture etc Barrel not floated and touching the woodwork/synthetic.........make sure there is clearance between the barrel and woodwork One thing I would say is how is the bullet placement on the targets? Are they equally spread over the 4" group or, are there always the same number close together, ie two together, the other three all over the place? I had an HMR like this. I dealt with all these and still had issues. I got rid of the rifle but on reflection I think it could well have been the rounds being damaged before the went into the breech. Either the underside of the bolt had a rough edge damaging the next round as it was pulled back, or the chamber had a burr or similar. What I should have done was to have cycled a mag full without firing onto something soft and examined them for damage. My money was on that. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Like all rimfires you have to find the round that suits the individual rifle. A 400% improvement in grouping on what you describe should be possible. You/he just has to try as many different brands as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjm160 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Thank you very much gents, some very helpful suggestions there and clearly much to try. The targets are still in the garage, I'll take a pic in the morning. The rounds were falling all over the 4-inches. As a small aside, we were both amazed at the difference in the clarity of our respective optics. I have a Light Stream 4.5-14 x 44 and he a Hawke with illuminated reticule. The eye relief on mine is a little fiddly but the target crystal clear where it was quite fuzzy through his. This really rammed home how better glass is worth the extra money and I think has sold him on acquiring a better scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Like all rimfires you have to find the round that suits the individual rifle. A 400% improvement in grouping on what you describe should be possible. You/he just has to try as many different brands as possible. As Wymberly says. How many different rounds has he tried? A friends Mauser wmr years ago went pear shaped because the stock cracked between the mag and front screw! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) Nothing has been mentioned about what make of rounds were being used or (Possibly more importantly) what weight of heads. When I had my .22WMR it would group very well with 50g Hornady ammunition but if I swapper to 40g or any other type of ammunition the grouping spread right out from a sub one inch group to a 2 inch plus group. After 250 rounds I would have thought that the barrel would have settled in. Maybe a good deap cleaning/scouring of the barrel might help and also check the condition of the crown and moderator (If a moderator is fitted). Also check that all of the scope mounts are tightened up properly and that the barrel is fully floating. Hope this helps mate. Edited June 8, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 As all the last few posts, the first thing to change is the ammo. Certainly take note of the comments in #2 as well. As also stated in the OP, my HMR is definitely SLIGHTLY more accurate than my WMR, but the difference at 100 yards is hardly worth talking about bearing in mind the size/weight/energy advantage of the WMR. Like for like the best I've done with either, my WMR groups are about 0.25" worse than my HMR groups. 4" groups at 100 yards is very suggestive that something isn't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun jimmy Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Try the remington accutip 33grain rounds. When I had my wmr it shot tighter with these than any 40 gr round! I also tried federal 50 gr rounds and it shot these good too but had alot more drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 My Ruger liked the CCI 40grainers and Winchester Maxi 40's and was very accurate with them at 100yards.Absolutely hated anything lighter;sprayed the 33's all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 If you're looking for a bit of a brute and provided it suits your barrel, the 40gn RWS takes the biscuit. Snag is, they're not cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 ...and whilst we are at it if anyone is interested I have 500 of these surplus to requirements. Please PM me if you re interested. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 My savage in hmr took a while to settle in. It only shot 20 grain rounds for the first couple hundred. Then as it fouled a little the 17's started working and everything was fine. If you want to accelerate the break in, give it a good scrub, shoot a few, scrub again, and repeat a couple times. Alternatively try both ends of the bullet weight spectrum and see what it prefers. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Two things I found with mine.one it was very ammo fussy 40g OK 30 and 33g about 3".and it needed regular cleaning it went off after about 30 shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Been having a serious maintenance program on the guns over the last few days. WMR stripped right down, out of stock, taken to pieces and rebuilt, so out today to do some zeroing work on it, and my .22lr which had the same treatment. 30g Hornady V-Max, both were 5 shot groups, the first was when I started, 14mm group (just over 0.5inch) This was after a few shots and I got it right, slight wind from right to left, hence why all left of centre. 18mm group (just under 0.75inch) Frankly, I'm happy with that, its about as good as I can get with the WMR, as I have said before the HMR always has the edge, just! I am not the best shot in the world, but talk of 4inch groups says something is wrong somewhere. Edited June 9, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjm160 Posted June 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Thanks much again gents, he left for a week overseas with work today but be sure we'll be working these fine suggestions on his return. Not sure what ammo he shoots, but that will certainly be the first check followed by removing the mod and then everything else. Much obliged for the most helpful suggestions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Been having a serious maintenance program on the guns over the last few days. WMR stripped right down, out of stock, taken to pieces and rebuilt, so out today to do some zeroing work on it, and my .22lr which had the same treatment. 30g Hornady V-Max, both were 5 shot groups, the first was when I started, 14mm group (just over 0.5inch) 011a.jpg This was after a few shots and I got it right, slight wind from right to left, hence why all left of centre. 18mm group (just under 0.75inch) 012a.jpg Frankly, I'm happy with that, its about as good as I can get with the WMR, as I have said before the HMR always has the edge, just! I am not the best shot in the world, but talk of 4inch groups says something is wrong somewhere. Excellent shooting! What rifle again please? U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Excellent shooting! What rifle again please? U. This one...CZ American WMR. Edit Must take some new pics., it has a Hawke Varmint 4-16 on it now! Edited June 9, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Thanks. Nowt wrong with a cz. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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