Portuguese Pointer in the making

[al4x]

Forget the crop as that's just people who respect the land pointing it out. Dog wise it's retrieving well which is usually a pointers weakest trait so keep going. Mine won't retrieve dummies for toffee far too keen to find something real, the next pup which is due any day will have dummies thrown as soon as it can walk.

[scotslad]

I usaully do it caps lock by mistake but for once i never! I'm still shocked u think it's ok to do/train a dog in standing crops. But that's up to u. It's not being perfect it's called common sense and knowing the coutryside code. It only takes someone else to see u walking through a field off crops and they think it's a good idea too. Not trying to be a drama queen just genuinely shocked that someone who shoots/works onfarms would ever walk a dog in a field of standing crops and more shocked still that u think it is perfectly acceptable instead of just putting hands up and saying i never really thought. We all make silly mistakes sometimes but as long as u learn from them, but u obviously know far more about the country side than me.

 

Not entirely sure wot ur getting at with the

Did u not say at bottom of last page u threw the dummy in tall crops specifcally to hold scent in? Surely if the scent is held in that will mean/encourage the dog to put its nose on deck, but i may have misunderstood u, For a young dog i really see little reason for throwing dummies into long cover but u obviously know wot are doing, just courious why u were doing it

 

U can't 'force' a dog to air scent but u can encourage it and also make it easier for it to air scent, just as u can make it easier/encourage a dog to ground scent

[Cosd]

I think the training in the crop bit is exhausted now, I don't know how many times you guys want the OP to say he understands the point.

 

Also it's nice to swap ideas or give a different view point rather the "I know better than you" comments.

 

Marko, tell that farmer the long crop is inconvenient for your training and to get it cut.

 

I wasn't that impressed with the retrieve. The odour from that sock I'm surprised you didn't have dogs from the whole village coming for it.

[Highbird70]

I usaully do it caps lock by mistake but for once i never! I'm still shocked u think it's ok to do/train a dog in standing crops. But that's up to u. It's not being perfect it's called common sense and knowing the coutryside code. It only takes someone else to see u walking through a field off crops and they think it's a good idea too. Not trying to be a drama queen just genuinely shocked that someone who shoots/works onfarms would ever walk a dog in a field of standing crops and more shocked still that u think it is perfectly acceptable instead of just putting hands up and saying i never really thought. We all make silly mistakes sometimes but as long as u learn from them, but u obviously know far more about the country side than me.

 

Not entirely sure wot ur getting at with the

Did u not say at bottom of last page u threw the dummy in tall crops specifcally to hold scent in? Surely if the scent is held in that will mean/encourage the dog to put its nose on deck, but i may have misunderstood u, For a young dog i really see little reason for throwing dummies into long cover but u obviously know wot are doing, just courious why u were doing it

 

U can't 'force' a dog to air scent but u can encourage it and also make it easier for it to air scent, just as u can make it easier/encourage a dog to ground scent

Scotslad.....you should know that using caps lock its rude....see giving all these perfect judgement of yours...and then, there you go, you failed at the first obstacle.

I never said that its perfectly acceptable.....you making things up now??? I said the farmer was ok with it because he saw me on the tramline and knows me well and ACTUALLY DEAR SCOTSLAD....READ MY FIRST ANSWER TO YOURSELF...I DID SAY, MAYBE IT WASN'T GOOD PRACTICE. I don't know you and I don't know how much you know about countryside, but please please lets not all be angelic judges here and biggots, by trying to crucify someone who walked on the tramlines.....Now the rant its over matey.

 

About the Dog:

 

Young Pointers, tend sometimes to stick the nose down a little, to teach them that they can air scent, you move to long grass, as you can see in the video, you forcing the dog neck up and air scenting.

[al4x]

It's not you in the tramlines it's the bloody dog crashing through the crop. You think it's fine however it is worth people understanding that it is poor practice especially on a year most farmers are going to struggle as crops are quite so bad.

[Highbird70]

It's not you in the tramlines it's the bloody dog crashing through the crop. You think it's fine however it is worth people understanding that it is poor practice especially on a year most farmers are going to struggle as crops are quite so bad.

Really Al4x....tho...didn't get that....geezzz

[pontbeck]

When your in a hole , ask for help and stop digging

[Highbird70]

When your in a hole , ask for help and stop digging

Referred to??

[Highbird70]

I think the training in the crop bit is exhausted now, I don't know how many times you guys want the OP to say he understands the point.

 

Also it's nice to swap ideas or give a different view point rather the "I know better than you" comments.

 

Marko, tell that farmer the long crop is inconvenient for your training and to get it cut.

 

I wasn't that impressed with the retrieve. The odour from that sock I'm surprised you didn't have dogs from the whole village coming for it.

 

Mate....there is a proverb, that I heard a long time ago......Its well knew that people give lots of perfect advise, especially when they done a lot of wrong things in their life.

 

Did you win today Cos??? I hope you hit a load of them

[shakari]

I'm just bloody glad to see a PP on here and I thank HB for posting it.......... can't wait to get mine!

[Highbird70]

I'm just bloody glad to see a PP on here and I thank HB for posting it.......... can't wait to get mine!

Hi Shakari, I will send you photos and videos

[shakari]

Thanks buddy...... that'll be great!

[PERCE]

Beware of the Portuguese Inquisition

[Highbird70]

Beware of the Portuguese Inquisition

 

 

We will conquer...lol

[oscarsdad]

We will conquer...lol

I think you mean "vamos conquistar"...

[Highbird70]

I think you mean "vamos conquistar"...

I think you talking Spanish...lol

[jeffd]

Well I am shocked I never knew that dogs could not scent dummies and game in long grass/ cover and crops as all of mine have been doing this for 40 years, its how I teach them to use there noses when they are pups.

[Highbird70]

Well I am shocked I never knew that dogs could not scent dummies and game in long grass/ cover and crops as all of mine have been doing this for 40 years, its how I teach them to use there noses when they are pups.

 

I really thought that I was from another Planet for 1 minute, thankfully I'm not alone

[shakari]

At what sort of age does a PP usually start it's training?

[Highbird70]

Hi Shakari,

 

Mona...my Portuguese pointer bitch, as started training from the moment she walked In the house. I started with the basic training, sit- come back- heel, very light training, taking my time, without pressuring the dog to much. Now that Mona is 7 month, I started with the normal training, as you can see from the video. To tell you the truth, there is no age for dog to start training, some dogs are ready to be trained at 5 months or some at 12 months, it all depends on the dog, normally you will notice when the ready.

 

Mark

[scotslad]

I wasn't going to bother replying again but here i go.

 

Yes dogs can scent in long cover but the dogs don't decide how the scent is gven off, it tends to form it's own almost micro climate below the 'canopy' level and no matter how good the scenting conditions are elsewhere it will be completely different in the long crop.

If u crawled into that crop and put ur face on the deck where dummy was there would be very little wind at all

 

More dogs will be ellimated/fail/eyewiped on FT on a suposedly simple dolly dropper 20m in front off the line in to long cover.

 

I have seen it myself many times while walking up,, a gun drops a bird into long cover in front off line well marked by numerous folk dog sent in for wot should be a simple bread and butter 20second retrieve, and u end up with 5+ dogs all hunting the fall for 5mins until a dog falls over it..

 

Have u honestly never seen ur dog make hard work off a realatively simple retrieve because scenting conditions are poor (birds lying on very cold ground is another problem, or slight hollow)

 

 

Please do me a favour before reading the rest, have a quick look/or think about the clip again take a step back and try to imagine it is not u and ur dog just some random punter with some random fat lab or mental spaniel and try to look at clip 100% objectively

this is not a dig at u, ur dog or anything else.

I used to train my dogs the exact same way until 8 or so years ago when a top trainer gave me some really quality advice which has totally changed the way i view training dogs and the way i train them now. 1 of the other things i try to do is look at my dogs the way other folk do and try to work out wot there strong/weak points are and try and work on them, very hard unless u take the rose tinted specs off that everyone has for their own dogs

 

just had a quick look and didn't realise quiet how far u were away from dog, as i have said that is actually a really hard retrieve and both u and ur dog deserve a lot of credit and praise esp for such a young dog.

 

But looking really objectively at it. I'd actually say that drill is a complete waste of time. What have u actually taught ur dog to do doing that retrieve 10 times? What would u have done if it never found the dummy and began to lose confidence? (probably not as big a problem with a pointer breed as generally so independent)

 

U would actually have been far better for u and ur dog to throw the dummy on short grass or even tarmac with it at ur side so it can improve it's steadiness, marking, confidence in following a line from body/hand, i would bet in 10 retrieves u would be throwing the dummy twice as far and dog would be improving every retrieve.Like i said the waty the pup is looking ur not doing much wrong but at it's age i would be trying to lay the foundations and give it confidence in my commands, even the delivery would be easier in short grass for the dog

 

I've never had a problem gettin a dog to hunt but i like it huntng scent wether i have dragged dummy about in some patchy rashes etc even hide dummy in a slight hollow and cover with grass, as the rashes are patchy wind can get in and get some scent out and i can watch the dog and encourage it when it's on scent and getting neaer dummy. Quite hard to encourage the dog if u can't see it and know it's hunting in the right place, no good encouraging/praising if not hunting in the right place

 

Aother thing that has confused me slightly is about the air scenting.

When u are sending a dog for a seen/marked retrieve surely u don't want it air scenting, probably the onlytime u want ur dog eye's to over rule it's nose, to some extent atleast

 

U also said u wanted to encourage ur dog to air scent using the long wheat to force head up (which i totally understand) but earlier on u said u used the long wheat to hold scent down (post 20) I would have thought if no scent rising up above the wheat it's hard for dog to sense it, it would really have been better to have dummy somehow raised up sort of level with crop hieght so wind can take the scent down wind above crop hieght.

 

I really want to make clear not having a go or trying to make out i know it all as that is not the case, i'm a very firm believer in every day is a school day, but just saying i used to train the exact same way I did, untill someone more knowledgable taught me better and easier ways. I know u never asked for any advice but just trying to help u out.

 

Good luck wi it

Edited June 28, 2013 by scotslad

[Highbird70]

Hi Scotslad, first of all, I would like to say that we all passionate about our dogs and the vary ways of training them, also writing a comment on a forum, sometime comes across a little hard. Normally, when training dogs, I tend to go out of there is enough wind, otherwise I don't ever bother for a couple of days, I just work on steadyness and basics, about long grass/ wheat, if its windy enough, some scent will go down wind, that's when you see the dog doing the classic 90 degree turn as it run. I take and read your comment very interestingly, I would really like you, to share the same advise received from that trainer that you mentioned, I am always willing to learn new ways, especially if proven good.

Thanks for the advise and the kind words regarding my dog, she's coming on well, today I tried her on the river, I noticed that she needs confidence building when crossing water, so I put on my big welies and in we go, after 30 minutes she was really enjoying to cross the river and retrieve . I hope you can share some of your lnowledge

[scotslad]

I used to throw dummies pretty much wily nily for my dogs, i had a vague idea wot i wanted but i never really thought about it that much.

 

Basically at a trainng day he asked the question . Why do u throw dummies? Most off us said for dog to retrieve. Fair enough

But he said u want to be teaching the dog something with every dummy, the retreive is the reward for the dog. Wether the dog actually retrieves the dummy althou ideally it will, but is not the end off world ,if it does wot u wanted initailly (followed line/back/direction etc)

 

In ur clip for example (don't mean to pick holes just use it as an example) it's the exact thing i used to do find heavy cover and chuck a retrieve in. Wot has dog actually learned? I already know it retrieves to hand and will enter cover, and to be honest there is a lot off luck involved picking in heavy cover. My dogs have eyewiped (well found birds missedt while sweeping) that have been missed by excellent FTW and FTCH dogs and likewise my dogs have been eyewiped by dogs that i think are ****e, There is a fair bit off kuck involved but good dogs will be luckier more often than bad ones

 

I wouldn't throw that type of retrieve for my older dogs, atleast more than once, too much to go wrong and very little gain.

As ur pup is sitting away good for steadiness if already steady but also hard to correct and the dog know's that, also if u threw it 10 times generally they will start gettin less steady as expecting it, also very hard for a dog to mark due to hieght off crop compared to dog and all looks the same. As dog away from u not gettin used to taking a line or either a direction

 

If u done a bog stanard dog a feet retrieve 10-20 times in short grass. massively easier but also more benefical than wot u've had ur pup doing but it will be learning all the time, it will improve dogs marking, dog will get used to u giving it a line with feet/body then hand (i never used to bother giving dogs much off a line in old days) basically every throw u could work the disrance up and it's gettin more confident in doing wot u ask. So when u move to next level, blinds, dog trusts u and runs the direction u point and finds dummy. gets the reward of a retrieve plus praise so trusts u even more, job done. The ian clinton boy in shooting times was just writinhg the exact same couple off weeks ago about keeping things simple and work up to complicated things slowly

 

I just think wot i'm doing far more now, even ur small simple things like 2 dummies out in front when pup gets more advanced always throw left dummy first, as dog will always want to fetch the last dummy (right) thrown first, but when u direct it to the left 1 ur body is blocking the dog from gettin to the right 1, just makes it easier for the dog to do the right thing and get praised, not rocket science but just wee things that make training go smoother

Would still throw dummies into cover but if dog hunts cover no prob's is there really much point, and i would combine it with something else either a direction/blind etc so it has learned/practised a skill other than just entering cover

 

Even with the long continous cover its hard to mark/remember fall yourself (easy to get disoriented by watching dog ang taking eyes off fall), can be hard to see/read the dog and unless u've got a good idea where it is can't really give ur search command (hi-lost, tthhhhhhere) If u always like to end on a positive too east to walk out to give dog a hand and not find dummy's fall

 

Loads off ways to train dogs but his ideas and philospy really stuck with me and ifind it far easier to train my dogs, any problems u go back a stage and isolate the 1 thing u wan to improve/sort, but wieght it in the dogs favour initially so it just becomes in the habit off doing it right.

It can get quite deep when u really start to think about it, not rocket science just a slighlty different take on things. Possibly u already do it, just was a completly different way off looking at it for me which really clicked

Edited June 28, 2013 by scotslad