The life of a drug addict ...

[andrewluke]

my wife has just be diagnosed with a heart complaint which was caused by cannabis,ketamin and a few other drugs,

 

 

my wife has never taken an illegal drug in her life but we have a druggie neighbour who takes all sorts and has threatened to burn our house down and has keyed my car and the stress has taken its toll on my wife,i would be quite happy to see every druggie wiped off the face of the earth,

 

andrew

[JonathanL]

down sides? simple heroin destroys lives, heroin does kill and heroin does bend minds do you really want to legalise it?

 

KW

 

I asked what the down sides of prescribing it to addicts were, not the down sides to legalising it.

 

J.

[Vince Green]

The interesting part of the question that never seems to get answered. Suppose all drugs were legalised and available over the counter in chemists, I'm not against the idea, I can see the logic behind it.

 

What would all the drug dealers do for income then? They are not suddenly going to get a job and do 9 to 5 are they?

[Gordon R]

Vince - fair point. I think there is some merit in prescription drugs, but can't accept the sweeping statement that crime will cease at a stroke. Drug dealers won't suddenly become bankers, judges, scientists.

 

That is simplistic in my book - personified by the odd poster.

[pimpkiller]

exactly, its not exactly the drug use its the type of person who drug uses (scumbaggery) you can bet you will suddenly get alot more crimes like prescription stealing/forging more muggings people lying for prescriptions and forcing people to hand over their drugs.

 

besides all that i dont like the moral side of the legalise debate i mean I like money if i start stabbing people for their money should the government give me lots of money to stop me stabbing people? or punish people who stab for money? just call me captain stabbin'

 

 

[ben0850]

Legal or illegal...heroin is evil stuff, the issue is trying to break the addicts cycle. Get the addict clean through rehab or a programme and they may respond well but as soon as they slip back into familiar social circles, deadhead mates, no work, no family structure or support it all goes west...

 

The issue of substance abuse (I don't just mean heroin) is so complex with so many mitigating factors I believe it's not a simple legal / prescription / illegal argument. Underlying social changes surrounding families and communities need to occur to really sort the problem out.

 

If I'm honest I wouldn't know where to begin putting right the mess some people find themselves in. My take is this.....

My parents have always tried to keep me right and squared me up when I have made a mistake...BUT....even if I made a massive mess of my life I know they would still be there for me, mutual respect etc.

How many addicts have been that lucky with their home surroundings???

Just my six penneth.....

[JonathanL]

Vince - fair point. I think there is some merit in prescription drugs, but can't accept the sweeping statement that crime will cease at a stroke. Drug dealers won't suddenly become bankers, judges, scientists.

 

That is simplistic in my book - personified by the odd poster.

 

I didn't say that. I said that the heroin trade would disappar pretty much over night, which it would. Also, addicts wouldn't steal and rob to fund their habbitbecause they wouldn't need to.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

exactly, its not exactly the drug use its the type of person who drug uses (scumbaggery) you can bet you will suddenly get alot more crimes like prescription stealing/forging more muggings people lying for prescriptions and forcing people to hand over their drugs.

 

besides all that i dont like the moral side of the legalise debate i mean I like money if i start stabbing people for their money should the government give me lots of money to stop me stabbing people? or punish people who stab for money? just call me captain stabbin'

 

 

 

Do you include the person who's addiction stems from the fact that her mother prostituted her from the age of 8?

 

Funny, I've asked that question at least three times yet people seem intent on ignoring it.

 

J.

[Gunnerbob]

yeah easy quote that, proud are we?

 

KW

Proud to be a caring parent with normal non addicted children...give the hand-wringing a rest !

[Vince Green]

If they legalised the drugs it would

 

1) cut off the money supply to the dealers which would be very satisfying in itself.

 

2) most importantly it would give said dealers no motive to entrap and recruit more vunerable kids for their own ends. Hopefully over time the cycle could be broken this way. Kids don't start out to be heroin addicts, somebody starts them.

[ack-ack]

 

They sacrificed there soles the first time they stuck that **** in there arms.

 

Karpman

Not necessarily, i'm sure there are a few skag heads that still enjoy a spot of sea angling

[Asa Bear]

Not necessarily, i'm sure there are a few skag heads that still enjoy a spot of sea angling

 

I was thinking they'd sold the bottom of their Nike Airs for their fix!

[Gordon R]

Jonathan - you make great play of the fact that no-one appears to answer your "point".

 

It should not surprise you as you duck out of threads when the going gets tough.

 

Is it not time for you to retire from sniping from the side-lines and give us your view on how it should be sorted. Forget the cut and paste and post your solution. Hell might freeze over meanwhile.

[JonathanL]

Jonathan - you make great play of the fact that no-one appears to answer your "point".

 

It should not surprise you as you duck out of threads when the going gets tough.

 

Is it not time for you to retire from sniping from the side-lines and give us your view on how it should be sorted. Forget the cut and paste and post your solution. Hell might freeze over meanwhile.

 

Gordon, what on earth are you on about mate?

 

What threads do I "duck out of" as you put it?

 

I haven't cut and pasted anything on this thread, I don't think.

 

Why can't anyone answer my question? I'll tell you why they can't, because trotting out the old "hang 'em all" hell-fire and damnation answer is easy and quick and makes you sound hard (actually, pathetic, is probably a better term) but it isn't actually based on any rational thought. Hence, people don't have an answer when the difficult questions arise.

 

Sorry mate but when people start making statements that addicts are the architects of their own downfall because their addiction arose due to them being forced into prostitution at the age of eight then you have to start and question their sanity and sense of common decency.

 

J.

[Gordon R]

Jonathan - you are man with a convenient memory. I don't have to do your homework for you - look back through your own posts.

 

You pop up with your extreme views - cut and pasting with some zeal.

 

I do worry about what goes on in your head.

[four-wheel-drive]

If they legalised the drugs it would

 

1) cut off the money supply to the dealers which would be very satisfying in itself.

 

2) most importantly it would give said dealers no motive to entrap and recruit more vunerable kids for their own ends. Hopefully over time the cycle could be broken this way. Kids don't start out to be heroin addicts, somebody starts them.

I agree from what has been said on the radio by people who now about these things for the most part they say that most drugs are not that bad for you if taken responsibly the problem is when people buy from drug dealers they have no way of knowing what is in the drugs they are using or the strength of it add to this dirty needles and lack of proper food that is what kills people not the drugs.

 

I think that all drug addicts should be registered and places set up where they can get free drugs ( pause for abuse ) at this point people say why should we pay for there drugs simple it is much much cheaper as a big proportion of all crime is done by people trying to get money for drugs and keeping them in prison alone costs us much more that just giving the drugs to them in the first place I could go on but what is the point people will not listen preferring to think that banning things can work.

[digger]

My nephew was addicted to heroin, started on cannabis and progressed upwards ( downwards ) from there. He stole from the whole family, gran, dad, me etc, He was caught coming out of his dads flat carrying his tv, stealing my ex wifes wedding ring , taking cash from his grans purse. I broke his index finger when I caught him stealing from my daughters money box, not by accident but to teach him a lesson, His dad flipped - researched on line what was needed to get him through and virtually kidnapped him, locked him in his house for days and got him out the other side, hes clean now and sees the harm in his previous ways,

Holier than thou tripe wishing them all dead is pathetic, hes now helping addicts,

[Gordon R]

digger - glad he has got sorted. Bit of an extreme cure - obviously not one I could subscribe to - but glad it worked.

[four-wheel-drive]

My nephew was addicted to heroin, started on cannabis and progressed upwards ( downwards ) from there. He stole from the whole family, gran, dad, me etc, He was caught coming out of his dads flat carrying his tv, stealing my ex wifes wedding ring , taking cash from his grans purse. I broke his index finger when I caught him stealing from my daughters money box, not by accident but to teach him a lesson, His dad flipped - researched on line what was needed to get him through and virtually kidnapped him, locked him in his house for days and got him out the other side, hes clean now and sees the harm in his previous ways,

Holier than thou tripe wishing them all dead is pathetic, hes now helping addicts,

If only it was that simple people will only give up when they are ready to do it they lock people in prison for months and as soon as they get out they are on the drugs or drink again just look at people who stop smocking it took me over ten years and god nows how many attempts to do it before I stopped for good.

[keg]

alcoholics are as bad if not worse than drug addicts i dont see any difference at all except ones taxed.

I don't hear of many people stealing to feed an alcohol addiction, although I agree the effects of alcohol can be as bad.

 

Some points I would like to make:-

 

75% of burglary in west Yorkshire Is drugs related.

 

 

I know after a few beers I get a bit giggly and tell bad jokes. I know what is in beer. I do not know what drugs are cut with. If I take them I do not know how I am going to react and after being told by one clown that cannabis is safe, I told about the two daughters of a friend who are now in full time care with paranoid schizophrenia after trying their first joint. Discovering you react badly to it after you try it is a bit too late.

 

 

Lastly, I agree that some people try them as a way out of what life has given them ( the 8 yr old springs to mind) but a large number do drugs from choice and then expect help. Same with drink I know.

 

I do not know what the answer is but personally what ever you do with drugs, keep it behind closed doors, If you want to smoke weed or shoot up, fine, just don't mug any relatives, steal my car or burgle my house to fund it.

 

 

Do you include the person who's addiction stems from the fact that her mother prostituted her from the age of 8?

 

Funny, I've asked that question at least three times yet people seem intent on ignoring it.

 

J.

Of course not Jonathan no sane person would but as always with our discussions on here, one size does not fit all.

[Vipa]

Look... the only way to deal with the drug problem is to put the importers, dealers and smugglers out of business. We have not up to now been able to do that with policing and our capacity on that front is shrinking all the time so... if it has not worked up to now, how in the hell is it going to work moving forward?

 

The way to put the importers, dealers and pushers out of business is to take away any demand for their product. That in turn will make it pointless trying to get young kids addicted in the first place so not only will we not have the criminal gangs at the supply end we will also have a vastly diminished number of new addicts in need of supply...

 

That is the ever decreasing circle and the ONLY way to tackle an up to now un-solvable problem. Unfortunately no one is willing to stick their neck out and give it a try... at the end of the day can it honestly have a worse effect that the current system..

 

Just think of the resources and cash that would free up for the police and border agencies so that they could concentrate on other things... not only would they not have to chase the dealers/pushers/users they would also be relieved from all that other crime that comes as part and parcel of an underground drug culture!

Edited July 1, 2013 by Vipa

[Vince Green]

Just think of the resources and cash that would free up for the police and border agencies so that they could concentrate on other things... not only would they not have to chase the dealers/pushers/users they would also be relieved from all that other crime that comes as part and parcel of an underground drug culture!

Then some accountant in some Ministry or other would then say we don't need so many police/ customs/ border agency any more and make them redundant. Its like the army. How is the present round of cuts economic sense? We still have to pay ex soldiers dole money? Might just as well keep them in uniform where they have their pride and self respect intact doing a good job.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Vince Green

[keg]

 

I didn't say that. I said that the heroin trade would disappar pretty much over night, which it would. Also, addicts wouldn't steal and rob to fund their habbitbecause they wouldn't need to.

 

J.

My only concern is that the NHS is straining at its seams budget wise at the moment, can it afford to prescribe drugs as well?

[four-wheel-drive]

I know after a few beers I get a bit giggly and tell bad jokes. I know what is in beer. I do not know what drugs are cut with. If I take them I do not know how I am going to react and after being told by one clown that cannabis is safe, I told about the two daughters of a friend who are now in full time care with paranoid schizophrenia after trying their first joint. Discovering you react badly to it after you try it is a bit too late.

 

 

The problem with cannabis and Schizophrenia is limited to just a few people and one could argue that perhaps it is time to have a testing program to find out and warn the people at most risk that they should not use it.

 

People have said that alcoholics do not tend to steel to buy drink perhaps not in most cases but then you can get drunk for just a few pounds as but drugs are not at all cheep to buy and in most cases the only way to feed a habit is by sex or steeling.

 

Also a lot of people do not just get happy on alcohol they do tend to hit other people which people on drugs normally do not unless they are also drunk.

 

I also do not understand the way they banned ecstasy ok there was a few people who took it and died but then you can say that about any proscription drug but it is for the most part safe to take for most people having banned it young people will do what young people do find something different to do the job the only problem is most of the alternative are much worst.

Edited July 1, 2013 by four-wheel-drive

[henry d]

Legal or illegal...heroin is evil stuff, the issue is trying to break the addicts cycle. Get the addict clean through rehab or a programme and they may respond well but as soon as they slip back into familiar social circles, deadhead mates, no work, no family structure or support it all goes west...

 

The issue of substance abuse (I don't just mean heroin) is so complex with so many mitigating factors I believe it's not a simple legal / prescription / illegal argument. Underlying social changes surrounding families and communities need to occur to really sort the problem out.

 

If I'm honest I wouldn't know where to begin putting right the mess some people find themselves in. My take is this.....

My parents have always tried to keep me right and squared me up when I have made a mistake...BUT....even if I made a massive mess of my life I know they would still be there for me, mutual respect etc.

How many addicts have been that lucky with their home surroundings???

Just my six penneth.....

 

A round of applause for the man above...

 

A peach of a topic which seems to have ripened from derogatory nonsense from a few to some great debate.

 

I would like to add in another factor which is getting more popular, LEGAL HIGHS.

Now these little beauties are bought over the internet and delivered to your door mcat (meow-meow etc.) was the first to be made illegal, however they just tweak the formula and there you go it is once again legal.

Now these drugs are really high in purity (caveat here-see later on) usually 98+% and anyone with a bank card, or access to one, can get it fairly cheaply. There are forums similar to this one that assist with dosage and mixing of chemicals to get the right edge to the high or smooth out the rough along with lots of other helpful tips. They too have some blindingly silly people on their forums too.

Now there is a variety of ways they have to ensure this supply stays legal. They call the stuff they sell "Plant Food", "Pond Cleaner" but usually "Research Chemicals" they have signs on them saying "not for human consumption" etc yet the sites selling them also sell the paraphernalia that goes with them. This way they get round the laws, however as with mcat when the furore erupts over deaths, usually teens but not always (Rockness last year for example), the chemical is banned so the chemical lab (house, garage.... whatever) gets their chemist to change the formula to something similar and up it goes onto the site. Usually they also have a few ghosts on forums to pose questions such as "Has anyone tried XXX yet?" or "I just tried a quarter gramme of XXX and had a great time just like the old days of Mephedrone!!!!!" or similar and the site gets lots of sales, however they also have lots of unsold chemicals of the old stuff left, so as all good economists do they wait a while and then add it to the new stuff and then when little Johnny along the street is nabbed by the fuzz at the local nightclub with a wee baggy of an un-known substance that when gets tested seems to be partially class A. Johnny protests his innocence as he bought his research chemical that was not for human consumption off a website that is based in China/Russia/USA wherever, but still gets prosecuted and his life goes down the pan.

 

These drugs and the way they are being sold/produced will bring a change to, and have brought a change to the way drugs are taken etc and we also need to tak into account all of this too. A major thing that is happening is lots of conflicting evidence on health problems, such as psychosis in some hallucinogenic/mood enhancers and bladder problems with ketamine like substances. Now back to the caveat from earlier, the producers may say they are 98% pure or higher but they also say they are legal etc. so no come back when you have your bladder removed or your brain turns to jelly as they are not for human consumption and the chemists do not really care about the side effects, just the profits.

 

The problems with any drug, alcohol and tobacco included, is that they wreck lives in one way or another and legalisation does not help as it turns MP`s into pushers. Like Ben above I do not have the answer, but I believe that social/community education in all areas of life will help rather than the "Kill them all" attitude.