-Mongrel- Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 This is the umbrella body in the U.K. http://www.bssc.org.uk/ Who? Another quietly (very), effective (?), body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Yeah yeah one powerful voice.. So powerful that ignores its members? Membership organisations need to remember who they serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) BSSC certainly talks to the HO on licencing for example, but to the very best of my knowledge are rather silent on lead shot etc. With all due respect Utectok, this thread is about lead shot and the current and imminent issues that could impact on its future use, using this thread to grind your personal axe against BASC or any other organisation for that matter is rather missing the point. By all means start (yet another) thread about SACS V The Rest if you want to. Turning back to the issue, there will always be individual organisations springing up, but as long as there is good communication between them, and on key issues like this they can all work together for the common cause so much the better. David Edited August 20, 2013 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Yep, that's BASC for you. Everyone placated; don't want to ruffle any feathers. It is said that the meek will inherit the earth but I think the likelyhood of that nowadays is virtually nil. I might be wrong and if I am and they do, there sure as hell won't be any lead on/over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Eh? not too sure how this moves the debate forward or contributes - which feathers are 'unruffled' Edited August 20, 2013 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 The Scottish Association for Country Sports makes it chrystal clear on it`s website that it plays no part whatsoever in attempting to influence English/ Welsh/N.Irish politics. If you live in any of the above countries, joining SAC`s with the expectation that it will do "good things" in Parliament is completely misguided. It won`t, and they happily admit it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) BSSC certainly talks to the HO on licencing for example, but to the very best of my knowledge are rather silent on lead shot etc. With all due respect Utectok, this thread is about lead shot and the current and imminent issues that could impact on its future use, using this thread to grind your personal axe against BASC or any other organisation for that matter is rather missing the point. By all means start (yet another) thread about SACS V The Rest if you want to. Turning back to the issue, there will always be individual organisations springing up, but as long as there is good communication between them, and on key issues like this they can all work together for the common cause so much the better. David With the greatest respect David this is not off topic it could be argued that most basc members wish a strong stance on lead and perhaps basc do not represent this view. Consequently I am not bashing basc just making the point membership organisations should represent its members and their views on lead in this case. I moved myself partly because I was paying for two organisations basc myself and sacs through my syndicate and partly because I thought basc was not representing its members over lead. No axes to grind just voting with my feet never heard a peep from basc so I'm assuming my membership was not missed Edited August 20, 2013 by utectok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Thank you, points taken. I think members of all organisations, not just BASC members, want to see a strong stance on lead, and not wishing to be accused by others of repetition but with all the threats over the last 20 years or more for full bans and further restrictions on lead shot, demonstrably BASC have delivered a firm and robust stance to these calls and prevented them coming to fruition. I can’t see much on the SACS web site about lead – perhaps I missed it so if you can send me a link that may help. The only reference I can see is on their wildfowling section which reads ‘Recent legislation has made it illegal to use lead shot over wetlands – this is still a contentious area, as it will take time, and probably legal guidance to establish which areas are ‘wetlands’ and which are not. A tad out of date to say the least…and the legal definition of wetlands in Scotland have long been established… I fully accept people will vote with their feet as you say if they feel their organisation is not delivering for them, in this / your case on lead , but in reality on the lead issue which of the two organisations do you think is more on the case? Of course your membership is missed, it’s just that we don’t pester ex members once they leave, although I do have plans to enhance our communications with past members, but that is way off topic by me! So yes we do need a robust stance, and all the shooting originations should be singing from the same hymn sheet. David Edited August 21, 2013 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Cheers David some good points if I'm honest I'm supporting sacs also because this organisation might have a lead roll if scotland becomes independent and one supposes will fall outside basc s remit ? But as you say that's another story...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Thank you, if independence comes I am sure BASC Scotland will play a lead part, just as they do now, on many key issues, and who knows how much more joint working will develop? After all we are all 'brothers in shooting' as it were even if we choose to support different organisations, we all have the same interest, same needs and same desires and same love for our sport and our countryside. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I see Nat Trust have banned lead on their properties and this affects some grouse shooting. Worrying as this may be seen as a precedent for other landlords who are not aware of issues. Death by a thousand cuts is what will end our sport. Surely we are at a critical point here and all countryside pegs should come together (possibly as one) and fight every attempt to chop away at our rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 If its possible to take a careful view of this, for shooting we should have a single voice, it should be reasonably priced, mandatory, include insurance and be subject to a formal member and independent scrutiny. It should have a wide support in industry and not be seen to be 'competing' with anybody. This model I am sure will only come about by one organisation being visibly seen to be doing more, having more influence and for me now crucially, starting to build up a fund for land acquisition. I have been and am against using BASC or any other organisations reserves to buy shooting land but it is undoubtedly time to start a voluntary fund to purchase land for shooting into the future. It will take time to gather enough cash but targeting bequests, the small amount charity tax -free donation per month or any other fund raising clay -shoots etc could build up a fair amount of cash in a short amount of time. Then buy some good shooting land - inland, coastal, etc. Either let it to a driven shoot or rough shooting on a day ticket basis, with a small charge per gun for re -stocking. This would see the shooting organisations able to CONFIRM the land holds more wildlife when managed for game, CONFIRM lead shot historically has little effect on wildfowl, produce learned papers and meaningful best practice guides on land management for game and native species. Call it the National Trust for Field Sports. Consolidation does seem to be the best way forward, to have a louder voice - make the special interest organisations focus on those special interests, ensure they are affiliated to the main organisation and a part of its management but keep the role of maintaining shooting, in all its potential complexity, to the one organisation. Divide an conquer. This is just my opinion and by the way, I think the only way to start such an organisation is to create it anew and draw people to it as a new organisation, not graft it on to any existing one. I would see ANY sport using guns , gundogs, etc in the one place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 If guns can afford to shoot Grouse at £50 plus a bird plus VAT I doubt another couple of quid per cartridge is going to put them off.It may be death by a thousand cuts for you or me,but not for them. The time for coming together has long passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Such a fund already exists, it’s called the Wildlife Habitat trust, (WHT) . This was set up in 1986 by members of the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC). It is dedicated to raising and distributing funds to help with the acquisition of land for shooting and conservation. So far mainly wildfowling clubs have made use of the grants and loans, but a couple of years ago a large target shooting club in the Midlands also benefited http://www.wht.org.uk/ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 If guns can afford to shoot Grouse at £50 plus a bird plus VAT I doubt another couple of quid per cartridge is going to put them off.It may be death by a thousand cuts for you or me,but not for them. The time for coming together has long passed. Yep, we all got a bit uppity when we were allowed to buy our council houses and then got the Poll Tax (seem to remember here, that people were successfully making representations about an unfair system while failing to comply with the payments ) sorted out. We're now being firmly put back in our place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I have read and followed this post and can't help but feeling a bit depressed by the slant and tone of so many differing agendas and snipes taken. My view for what it is worth is that non toxic shot is the law for foreshore and wetlands and for shooting wildfowl. Anyone who pursues such quarry should know the law and STICK TO IT. Those that do not have put this topic high up a lot of agendas and have allowed the position on Lead to creep across all areas of shotgun shooting, and by breaking the law are endangering the wider use of Lead to the potential detriment of all shooters. I am and have been for 20 years a BASC member,I think with their large membership/political fingers are the loudest voice for shooting AND CONSERVATION and do more to promote shooting/game management etc than any other which is why I am happy to continue to support them.I do not blame BASC for the Lead shot debate, I blame all shooters ignoring the law and they(BASC) find themselves in the middle. I do not see how or why they should be expected to defend the indefensible. To those that think BASC are in someway running an anti shooting campaign by the back door is akin to turkeys running a Xmas dinner marketing campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Whilst I understand your sentiments I personally feel this is part of a wider campaign to hit root and branch shooting by our opponents and we need a much more vociferous campaign to fight this. Here I feel we need all countrysports organisations to join together. I include angling, hunting, pigeon racing etc etc - any organisation the likes of RSPCA, Animal Aid, PETA and the rest of those misguided ******** who are trying to destroy our wonderful life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Mattersey Rifle & Pistol Club yes I remember the big look at us . it says its a notts club but its more south Yorkshire .and the reports are its very cliquey and expensive £206 +£100 joining fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Lets not knock a club just because of their fees! - I can think of loads of shooting clubs that have fees around this mark or more! The point is that there is a national fund and its open to inland clubs and wildfowling clubs. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Those of you who keep using lead shot illegally, please stop immediately and just tow the line and follow the law. If not, many folk will get priced out of shooting - but lots of folk have the cash and guns to continue long after a lead ban. So, let's play nicely, do legal stuff and play together like grown ups please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 Whilst I agree with everything you say there will still be those who ignore this bad law and up to a point you can understand the gun out in the middle of an autumn stubble shooting partridges having a pop at that pair of duck flushed from the pond. For those shoots where game goes into the open market keepers, shoot captains or owners need to be more forceful in their briefings and perhaps cost in a couple of hundred non-lead shells. This is where we will be found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Whilst I agree with everything you say there will still be those who ignore this bad law and up to a point you can understand the gun out in the middle of an autumn stubble shooting partridges having a pop at that pair of duck flushed from the pond. While it's not right, this isn't the kind of bird that will end up at a game dealers, it'll be on the shooters table. Like I say though, still doesn't make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 You don't have to shoot everything that flys over you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Agreed but let's admit it does happen hence why I feel to keep us "clean" we need gamekeepers, shoot owners/captains particularly on the big commercial shoots to insist non-lead if duck are shot. On the smaller shoots where no game gets into the food chain we cannot prevent some abuse (this is a bit like speeding - who doesn't occasionally and knowingly speed???) so let's try to minimise chances of critisism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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