Directional training

[BRNDL]

Hello

 

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I cant seem to find the best thread.

Since I have taken all of my gun dog training from here to date, I thought it best to continue as everything seems to be going well with progression.

 

My lab is 10 months old now. She can competently,

 

Sit (Hand signal & Whistle) both at distance

Stop,sit or lie down on the whistle at distance.

Wait for any length of time until called

Retrieve and blind retrieve (more work needed on blind and not dummy to hand yet but at feet)

"Move back" to retrieve at distance

Walk to heel

Walk ahead on instruction

Walk behind on instruction

"Have a look" over in hedges/long grass ect

 

I am wanting to know the best route for directional training. I can get her to distance but she gets confused when I arm signal a direction and just begins the search left or right. Maybe I am getting it wrong. Now I have tried throwing 2 x dummy either side of me and she is great and will retrieve the one I want, but wont take this out into the retrieve.

 

Any help? Am I rushing things or about right given her age?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

BRNDL

 

[labstaff]

I teach directions by sitting the dog against a straight line (be it a wall, hedge etc) and throw one dummy to the side of it (preferably slightly behind the dog). Its best done somewhere where the dummy can be seen so either short grass or a lane as I want the dog to pick it without hunting as its got to relate that arm signal to going that way and the retrieve will be there.

When I'm happy with that direction I repeat with the other.

When your confident with both, throw both dummies out, but send the dog for the last one thrown (as this should be the easiest). The dog has to be 100% on the stop whistle for this though in case it goes for the wrong dummy.

When this is going well you can send it for the second one thrown first, then you can have one as a blind direction and one thrown.

Don't forget to pick some of the dummies yourself to maintain steadiness.

You can bring in the "three card trick" with one to the left, one right and one behind when you are confident with each direction.

[WelshAndy]

I started my pup with directions from a young age just by sitting him down and placing his food bowl to his tight or left and then over exaggerating the arm movement to the direction of the food bowl.

[B725]

I teach directions by sitting the dog against a straight line (be it a wall, hedge etc) and throw one dummy to the side of it (preferably slightly behind the dog). Its best done somewhere where the dummy can be seen so either short grass or a lane as I want the dog to pick it without hunting as its got to relate that arm signal to going that way and the retrieve will be there.

When I'm happy with that direction I repeat with the other.

When your confident with both, throw both dummies out, but send the dog for the last one thrown (as this should be the easiest). The dog has to be 100% on the stop whistle for this though in case it goes for the wrong dummy.

When this is going well you can send it for the second one thrown first, then you can have one as a blind direction and one thrown.

Don't forget to pick some of the dummies yourself to maintain steadiness.

You can bring in the "three card trick" with one to the left, one right and one behind when you are confident with each direction.

[BRNDL]

I teach directions by sitting the dog against a straight line (be it a wall, hedge etc) and throw one dummy to the side of it (preferably slightly behind the dog). Its best done somewhere where the dummy can be seen so either short grass or a lane as I want the dog to pick it without hunting as its got to relate that arm signal to going that way and the retrieve will be there.

When I'm happy with that direction I repeat with the other.

When your confident with both, throw both dummies out, but send the dog for the last one thrown (as this should be the easiest). The dog has to be 100% on the stop whistle for this though in case it goes for the wrong dummy.

When this is going well you can send it for the second one thrown first, then you can have one as a blind direction and one thrown.

Don't forget to pick some of the dummies yourself to maintain steadiness.

You can bring in the "three card trick" with one to the left, one right and one behind when you are confident with each direction.

 

 

Ok. That sounds good...

 

Just a question or two, when you say "pick some of the retrieves yourself to maintain steadiness" whats the goal here? I go and pick a thrown dummy up myself so the dog doesnt retrieve everything, just what I send her to. Is that the steadiness part?

 

Also, do I have her retrieve one, then send her for the second or collect both in and throw again for another directional retrieve?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but would you sit the dog on the whistle then use your arm for direction or do you blow the whistle and arm signal??

[B725]

If you send the dog for all the retieves it will start to run in as it thinks that they are all for it, by picking some yourself it helps to keep the dog steady.You can mix and match the retieves to stop the dog from second guessing what you will do,as for the direction change I allways stop the dog so it looks at me and only then give a direction to go,I sometimes send the dog one way then stop it and then send it the opposite way for a different retieve.

[BRNDL]

Ah...I like that.

 

Will have a pop at it over the next few weeks and hopefully make progress. I like the interrupting the 1 st retrieve to send her onto a different one. Thant should come with time.

 

Thanks again,

[B725]

All that does is reinforce to the dog that you are in charge all the time and one day you may find you send the dog for one retieve but the second becomes more important i.e a runner good look and dont be in a hurry.

[cocker boy]

Don't move on to directional work until your blinds are 100% and the delivery is also 100%. If you skip parts of the dogs training you will end up with a dog that does everything at 80%. Perfect 1 thing before moving on to the next.

Edited August 15, 2013 by cocker boy

[WGD]

Sort of agree with CB, particularly re getting the delivery sorted. Just an observation but your dog seems to be able to do a lot of things it doesn't need to do and not some of the things it should. Direction training should be an easy progression starting close in with easy marks. 3 or 4 yards either side on short grass with the dog right in front of you and build it up. You don't need the stop whistle and you don't need to be sending it on blinds, only train the exercise you are concentrating on when it is new to the dog and build it up slowly.

[kent]

Its dropping at my feet. Step one cure it! Get it on the stop so you can stop it on the run out, easier than it sounds. Step two! its rather like building a wall get the bottom bricks squiffy and you will have to work real hard to correct things further up.

Make it fun for you both and don't get predictable, direction work is actually real easy with the lower blocks well sorted. Labstaff gives a good description

 

edited to add,

Try and throw dummies you can beat the dog to if he ever ignores the stop, he mustn't self reward by picking it. If he does so what there is nothing you can do let him bring it in and put it back. If your slow get a helper this applies to stop on the run out and the three dummies and watch the overhead throw I avoid it as it looks like to the dog like its being sent back ( I prefer that one a plant)

Edited August 18, 2013 by kent

[BRNDL]

I teach directions by sitting the dog against a straight line (be it a wall, hedge etc) and throw one dummy to the side of it (preferably slightly behind the dog). Its best done somewhere where the dummy can be seen so either short grass or a lane as I want the dog to pick it without hunting as its got to relate that arm signal to going that way and the retrieve will be there.

When I'm happy with that direction I repeat with the other.

When your confident with both, throw both dummies out, but send the dog for the last one thrown (as this should be the easiest). The dog has to be 100% on the stop whistle for this though in case it goes for the wrong dummy.

When this is going well you can send it for the second one thrown first, then you can have one as a blind direction and one thrown.

Don't forget to pick some of the dummies yourself to maintain steadiness.

You can bring in the "three card trick" with one to the left, one right and one behind when you are confident with each direction.

 

Thanks very much for this.

 

I have taken your advice and put it into practice. She is coming on really well, the directional training has worked both left and right, including blinds.

 

I even used it in a water retrieve, launched both dummies, sent her for the second, mid way through I stopped her on the whistle and signalled her to the other. Faultless!

 

Thanks again.

 

labstaff, how would you recommend teaching the hold command? I have been trying now for nearly 2 weeks without much success.

 

Thanks in advance,

Edited August 21, 2013 by BRNDL

[THE AD]

If you send the dog for all the retieves it will start to run in as it thinks that they are all for it, by picking some yourself it helps to keep the dog steady.You can mix and match the retieves to stop the dog from second guessing what you will do,as for the direction change I allways stop the dog so it looks at me and only then give a direction to go,I sometimes send the dog one way then stop it and then send it the opposite way for a different retieve.

+1

[B725]

If you sit the dog up and gently place a dummy in the dogs mouth and tell it to hold giving it praise as it does so,if it drops the dummy just repeat the exercise untill it realises that that is what you want.You could also try this just as the dog gets back to you stop the dog just short of you and see if it holds it.

When you do a water retieve as the dog comes out of the water just run back a few yards this will stop the dog from shaking as it comes out of the water and come straight back to you.

[BRNDL]

If you sit the dog up and gently place a dummy in the dogs mouth and tell it to hold giving it praise as it does so,if it drops the dummy just repeat the exercise untill it realises that that is what you want.You could also try this just as the dog gets back to you stop the dog just short of you and see if it holds it.

When you do a water retieve as the dog comes out of the water just run back a few yards this will stop the dog from shaking as it comes out of the water and come straight back to you.

 

Great info, I will be on with this tomorrow! The hold thing is frustrating.

 

Thanks again,

[WGD]

Stop retrieving and sort the delivery, you are pushing on with other training and ingraining an undesirable behaviour which will get harder and harder to sort.

 

Do you give another retrieve after the dog has spat one at your feet?

[BRNDL]

Stop retrieving and sort the delivery, you are pushing on with other training and ingraining an undesirable behaviour which will get harder and harder to sort.

 

Do you give another retrieve after the dog has spat one at your feet?

 

Short answer is yes. I pick the dummy back up and place it in her mouth, hold it there for a few seconds then say release. After the release I praise her.

 

I understand i need to sort the delivery...I will focus on this again.

 

Have you any training suggestions for the hold?

 

Thanks WGD

Edited August 21, 2013 by BRNDL

[PERCE]

As the dog is coming in turn & walk away letting it follow you at heel. Dropping can be can caused by an over anxiety to get the dummy off the dog so perhaps relax a bit & let the dog 'enjoy' what it's brought you. A nice up front delivery can be easy to sort again later but as WGD has posted the dropping can turn into a difficult to solve problem.

I'd also be slowing down a bit on the direction stuff, sometimes a dog that appears to pick it all up quickly hasn't really sussed it at all & then struggles with it all when put under pressure later on. I'm currently training one that has struggled with direction,she's very soft, folds up easily & lacks confidence. It's taken 4 months to get her to do it in a very basic fashion.

[WGD]

As B725 says but without a retrieve first. Just sit the dog in front of you and give it the dummy and take it back again. Repeat that several times, Will it hold a dummy in that situation?

 

You have to find out what works for that dog.

 

I had one spaniel given to me which spat every retrieve, it took 3 - 4 weeks and it wasn't perfect when it went back to its owner but it wouldn't sit in front of you with a dummy without being uncomfortable. But if you put it on a lead, gave it a dummy and immediately walked with it, it would carry the dummy. That was the first bit of success, then once it was comfortable being close to me with the dummy in it's mouth, I would sit it up and give it a dummy to hold, gradually building the time up. Then on to short retrieves focusing on the delivery rather than the retrieve, then onto retrieving exercises once the delivery was sorted.

 

Not being a smart *** but it ended up like this

 

[kent]

What happens to the delivery in water, I don't mean 10-20ft back but you actually waiting in the shallows? Just interested to see what occurs

[WGD]

What happens to the delivery in water, I don't mean 10-20ft back but you actually waiting in the shallows? Just interested to see what occurs

 

Feet get cold

[labstaff]

Personally if the dog drops the dummy I don't pick it up and place it back in the dogs mouth. This could lead to the dog thinking its doing right by dropping because you pick it up give it the dog and it gets praised. I would encourage the dog to pick it back up off the floor.

Also try walking away from the dog (either backwards or at heel as previously said). Don't worry about getting the dog to sit and present just get it coming to you with the dummy. The sit can come later.

Also, only praise the dog whilst it is holding the dummy.Once you have taken it stop praising.

Hope this helps.

[scotslad]

1 trainer told me that praising the dog after u have taken the dummy/birds off it is actually encouraging it to let go. Yet 95% off trainers/handlers do the opisate take dummy then praise, including myself, he's the only trainer i've ever heard say that.

 

I now try to only praise the dog while it is still holding bird take bird and ignore the dog, but i have been praising dogs so long afterwards that i usually still do that too. Infact just noticed labstaff said something similar in his last sentance

[kent]

Feet get cold

Smarty pants, you know full well were I am going with this

[labstaff]

BRNDL, How are things progressing?