pg123 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Hi Sorry bet this has been done many times before but I have my first FAC application signed and ready to post and at that the last minute have become undecided on my choice of calibre for foxes. I am a member of a small shoot and only 2 of the 8 members have their FAC. I wanted to get mine so I can help with vermin & fox control. The land is cleared and mentors are in place so all is good to go. My application is for a .22LR for small vermin & .22-250 for foxes. Trouble is I have started to wondered if a .223 would be a better option? If I understand what I have read the .22-250 has a greater distance than the .223 and as its my first application would the FEO be happier with the .223 because of the reduced range. Cant find much difference in prices of rifle or ammo locally so that doesn't seam to be a factor. Sorry but don't fancy .222 due to age (tin hat on I know but its my money at the end of the day). Thanks and sorry if I am repeating a very old question. Edited October 5, 2013 by pg123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 You may find that you would be granted a .223 over a .22-250. Although the bullet head is the same diameter, the extra power given off by the latter may not be allowed on your first application. Having said that, I know someone who had a .22 LR for 10 months, and he was then granted permission to purchase a .22-250. The .223 is an excellent calibre for foxing/vermin control, so I would go for that. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Yeah, this has been done to death many a time and the odds are .243 will also come into the thread. Your region have no choice but to grant you what you can justify (other legal situations being ok), there is no..... he can't have a big centrefire on first application ..... rule. I see no logical difference safety wise in a .223 or 22-250, BUT, unfortunately many regions do not see this and will give you an argument, impose conditions or even refuse. If you think a 22-250 is a BETTER option in the circumstances, then hold your ground and put your case, and join BASC (other shooting organisations are available) to help fight your corner if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Am I right in thinking that a .22-250 could be applied for and if his FEO thinks it's too much at the interview the request could be changed? With mentors in place though I would expect them to grant you pretty much anything. The new shooter risk is erased by having an experienced shot supervising you. I've never seen the point in .22-250 (brace yourself for the might as well get a .243 point) but if you want one, ask for it. If you may ever need to deal with deer though the .243 will do the same job on foxes but be legal for deer too (I am of course assuming that the ground is cleared for the bigger calibre and your mentor has something other than foxing guns?). What sort of ranges do you think you will need to shoot out to? If it's only a couple of hundred yards or so the .22-250 has nothing to offer other than more recoil, increased wear on your moderator baffles and a shorter barrel life than the .223. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Hi guys, Many thanks for taking time to reply. Not sure what the land is "officially" cleared for. Do know in the past people have shot .308 on there but they have been shooting for years and have open certificates. I am not likely to shoot anything beyond 200m so may as we'll change to the .223 Think I originally went .22-250 because because that's what the guy I have been lamping for uses. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Your region have no choice but to grant you what you can justify (other legal situations being ok), there is no..... he can't have a big centrefire on first application ..... rule. Try telling that to Sussex . There are Home Office guidelines that recommend an applicant should have some experience See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/237366/Guide_Firearms_Licensing_Law_2012-13_chapter_13.pdf sections 13.4, 13.26, 13.28 and 13.32 I've been through a very similar application and it looks like I'm getting a .223 rather than the .243 I asked for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Try telling that to Sussex . There are Home Office guidelines that recommend an applicant should have some experience See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/237366/Guide_Firearms_Licensing_Law_2012-13_chapter_13.pdf sections 13.4, 13.26, 13.28 and 13.32 I've been through a very similar application and it looks like I'm getting a .223 rather than the .243 I asked for Perhaps someone needs to remind them that is a Guide (which is currently being updated), and also point them in the direction of 13.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Perhaps someone needs to remind them that is a Guide (which is currently being updated), and also point them in the direction of 13.2. 13.2 does state that it is complex. It's all about **** covering. If they can get you to attend, say, a DSC1 and get a piece of paper saying what a terrific marksman you are, then when you accidentally shoot someone, they can answer the question "Why did you grant the defendant a full bore calibre" with "because BASC/whoever assessed him/her as being fit" I know the guidance is being updated but I wouldn't hold my breath that it's going to get any looser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Hi Sorry bet this has been done many times before but I have my first FAC application signed and ready to post and at that the last minute have become undecided on my choice of calibre for foxes. I am a member of a small shoot and only 2 of the 8 members have their FAC. I wanted to get mine so I can help with vermin & fox control. The land is cleared and mentors are in place so all is good to go. My application is for a .22LR for small vermin & .22-250 for foxes. Trouble is I have started to wondered if a .223 would be a better option? If I understand what I have read the .22-250 has a greater distance than the .223 and as its my first application would the FEO be happier with the .223 because of the reduced range. Cant find much difference in prices of rifle or ammo locally so that doesn't seam to be a factor. Sorry but don't fancy .222 due to age (tin hat on I know but its my money at the end of the day). Thanks and sorry if I am repeating a very old question. What do the 2 members who have a fac use as that is a good guide for the land/shoot!! ( I put in for .243 from the start and was granted it..) TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Am I right in thinking that a .22-250 could be applied for and if his FEO thinks it's too much at the interview the request could be changed? With mentors in place though I would expect them to grant you pretty much anything. The new shooter risk is erased by having an experienced shot supervising you. I've never seen the point in .22-250 (brace yourself for the might as well get a .243 point) but if you want one, ask for it. If you may ever need to deal with deer though the .243 will do the same job on foxes but be legal for deer too (I am of course assuming that the ground is cleared for the bigger calibre and your mentor has something other than foxing guns?). What sort of ranges do you think you will need to shoot out to? If it's only a couple of hundred yards or so the .22-250 has nothing to offer other than more recoil, increased wear on your moderator baffles and a shorter barrel life than the .223. Flatter trajectory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 For mainly Fox any of the .22CF calibres are good enough. I settled on the .22-250 and absolutely love it. ATB in whatever you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Go for the .22-250, Its a peach of a round. If hes not happy giving it to you just take the 223. easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Go for the .22-250, Its a peach of a round. If hes not happy giving it to you just take the 223. easy. +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Hi guys, Many thanks for taking time to reply. Not sure what the land is "officially" cleared for. Do know in the past people have shot .308 on there but they have been shooting for years and have open certificates. I am not likely to shoot anything beyond 200m so may as we'll change to the .223 Think I originally went .22-250 because because that's what the guy I have been lamping for uses. Thanks again. Ultimately it's up to you, the 250 has a lot of fans and it's only as noisy as using a .243 for foxing which lots of us do. The .223 is a bit less noisy and not quite as flat shooting but that can be nice as you can watch the shot hit home. Ignore cost issues as you rarely use enough bullets to worry, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hi Sorry bet this has been done many times before but I have my first FAC application signed and ready to post and at that the last minute have become undecided on my choice of calibre for foxes. I am a member of a small shoot and only 2 of the 8 members have their FAC. I wanted to get mine so I can help with vermin & fox control. The land is cleared and mentors are in place so all is good to go. My application is for a .22LR for small vermin & .22-250 for foxes. Trouble is I have started to wondered if a .223 would be a better option? If I understand what I have read the .22-250 has a greater distance than the .223 and as its my first application would the FEO be happier with the .223 because of the reduced range. Cant find much difference in prices of rifle or ammo locally so that doesn't seam to be a factor. Sorry but don't fancy .222 due to age (tin hat on I know but its my money at the end of the day). Thanks and sorry if I am repeating a very old question. There is zero safety difference in a .22-250 and a .223 as they will both only be fired into a safe backstop/ backdrop. In the event some fool shoots one skywards at 33 degrees they will both prove lethal if they happen to hit someone a few thousand yards away, I suppose the 22-250 might go a few hundred yards further but what the heck- both will land further away than you can actually see. If you say the .223 has a shorter range you might also say the 22-250 has decreased ricochet potential both are purely academic chicken and egg stuff. .223 rem is easier to moderate because it burns less powder, both will have equal effective foxing range at night because you and nobody else can 100% id foxes over 300 yds away at night - or hit them with 100% certainty. The .223 will have a longer barrel life and should be cheaper if you get into re-loading your own ammo, unfortunately factory ammo is about equal as the biggest cost build up is in profits and transportation I also like some of the dedicated small action rifles personally and the 22-250 case just outsizes their use. But get what you want, most FEO's (note most not all) know little to nothing about ballistics and come up with all sorts of rubbish. Flat shooting is BS spouted by those with little long range shooting experience, windage errors will create far more misses as you can far easier compensate that extra inch or two in drop. For that reason a heavier higher BC bullet travelling somewhat slower and hence following a more curved trajectory will be easier in use at extended ranges (which isn't part of normal low land fox control on the lamp etc. anyway) Seriously doubt you will kill more foxes with either one or the other so get whichever you fancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 You need better gear kent on stubble I have had positive I'd to 500 yards plus I can id over that with night vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thank the Lord you don't live near me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 The thing is modern scopes and lamps it's simple, I wouldn't shoot at that distance but I'd in open ground is simple. Then you get the ones at 100 yards in cover you can't if the thing is you have to have looked through decent gear to know what you can see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hi all. Thanks for all your help. Forms went in the post yesterday with .223 on. Made the call based on three things - 1, the FEO may be a little happier 2, longer barrel life 3, slightly less noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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