decroyffe Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Long storey but here goes. A friend breed his two IWS to keep back a pup for himself. He works both dam and shire, and intends to train and work the new pup. The litter was nine strong, and he sold the remaining eight. Unfortunately one new owner was taken ill and unable to care for the pup, so it was returned on the understanding it would be rehomed to a working family. He was unable to find the right home, and has come to me has a last resort. I'm able to train the dog, but not provide enough work has I mostly beat. Has a result I intend to train the pup and sell it on which doesn't sit too well with me. My questions are:- has anyone ever bought a part trained or trained dog, and how well did it adapt to its new home a year or so in to its life. Also is it possible to convert a penned dog to living indoors without too much fuss. The pup is penned outdoors with my springer and cocker has I have whippet bitches indoors. I'm worried that when the time comes the sale will be a difficult one due to the rare breed and the fact it's not house trained...!!! What are your thoughts please, and here's the little fella below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Lovely dog I'd love him but I don't no if my 2 yr old cocker would agree.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 i think as you said the difficulty is the fact that it's a rare breed that people don't know much about. Can they hold there own against other traditional water retrievers like the lab, goldie, chesapeake. Looks like a cracking little dog though. It'd be nice to see a bit more variety out and about. ATB, Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decroyffe Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 It's certainly a difficult position to be in. In affect the pup is paid for. The new owner paid in full, £850, but didn't want the pup to be resold, just rehomed to a working family. It wouldn't be right to to sell the pup again, and the breeder couldn't find the right home due to the fact anyone is willing to take a free dog, especially has the dams litter sister won game dog of the year at crufts. I'd happily keep the dog but I couldn't put it to use because there no beating spaniel. I'd have no quorums selling the dog trained to the right person, which is what I intend to do, I'm just not sure how a dog copes in that situation. The breed makes and excellent retrieving companion. Used on driven days for picking up, down the foreshore and on the grouse moors, which is where most of the litter was destined. Like any other breed if trained correctly there fine, but due to there intelligence make one mistake or over look any part of the training, and they will make a fool of you. Unlike springers, cockers and labs, there's no forgiveness and they've made many gun dog trainers who've done well with springers etc look poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenlander Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 AS long as the dog has natural working ability,and if you make a good job of its training, I do,nt see why you would have a job finding a new home for it,in fact you should have a cue of people wanting to buy the dog off you. There are always people who want a fully or nearly fully trained working dog,and they are willing to pay a lot of money for them. As long as when the time comes you are able to give a good demonstration of the dogs working skills, the fact it is a rare breed shouldnt realy be a problem,and may even work in its favour, as some people like to be different,and seek out such novelties. The question to ask yourself is,will you be able to part with the dog when the time comes ? as it will take you at least a year to train it to what most would call part trained,and thats if every thing go,s well, In that time you may become so attached to the dog you and the family may not be able to part with it. I would,nt worry about it adapting from kennle to house in the future,as for one its not usually a big deal, many rescue greyhounds manage it and they arn,t the most trainable dogs. and Two a lot of people who want to take on a part or fully trained dog,will want it outside anyway. When you think about it,you wouldnt realy want to come in from a wet day in the field or on the marsh, and let your IWS run in the house and take up a place on the couch would you. Just my thoughts,all the best with the dog, I hope it all works out for you and it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 My dad and I went halves on a year old part (3/4's) trained lab bitch in 2004 from Paul Sinclair (one of his last two dogs that he had to let go because of a hip replacement at 80). She was kennelled prior to us getting her, but acclimatised very well to indoor living and went on to become a very good dog, who has been praised by those that have shot with us over the years. Long storey but here goes. A friend breed his two IWS to keep back a pup for himself. He works both dam and shire, and intends to train and work the new pup. The litter was nine strong, and he sold the remaining eight. Unfortunately one new owner was taken ill and unable to care for the pup, so it was returned on the understanding it would be rehomed to a working family.He was unable to find the right home, and has come to me has a last resort. I'm able to train the dog, but not provide enough work has I mostly beat. Has a result I intend to train the pup and sell it on which doesn't sit too well with me.My questions are:- has anyone ever bought a part trained or trained dog, and how well did it adapt to its new home a year or so in to its life. Also is it possible to convert a penned dog to living indoors without too much fuss.The pup is penned outdoors with my springer and cocker has I have whippet bitches indoors. I'm worried that when the time comes the sale will be a difficult one due to the rare breed and the fact it's not house trained...!!!What are your thoughts please, and here's the little fella below.image.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 To be fair I think your proposition breaks the guys request, I feel from what you state he didn't want it shufted about and sold on. I am surprised you or the breeder cannot find it a good forever home were it will be trained for purpose that owner intends. I should certainly consider taking on an unusual dog forever if it came with a nil price tag as might many but taken on after someone had "trained it" no not so keen. A friend gave back a fully trained Lab when he became seriously ill with the same stipulation and to be fair the breeder (who is maybe the most respected man in the field) stuck by his request 100% " free to the right working home as a forever dog". The dog spent its days as a peg dog for a Doctor, he was a happy man when he was well enough to sneek a peek at it working with its new owner (incognito) Part trained by an amateur especially such an unusual breed should not be worth much or any more than a blank canvass I should have thought, personally I shouldn't consider such a purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decroyffe Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Fair points. The breeder is well aware that I intend to sell or gift the dog. His personnel circumstances meant the dog had to go. Living in a two up, two down with the wife and kids, plus two adult IWS, a IWS pu,p and an adult cocker isn't ideal, so giving the dog to me was very reassuring to him knowing at the very least, it will be cared for and trained to work. I was going to carrying on the search on behalf of the breeder to rehome the pup. For me he's not in the way and he can stay there for as long as he needs. The idea was to advertise the pup has a sale, so we could ensure whoever was coming to buy the dog, would be under the impression they'd need to part with cash however, after vetting the individual, gift the dog, but he'd rather I train it..!! After reading the above comments I'm happy now that the dog will adjust accordingly when the time comes. I'm a little mythed by the last comment regarding "amateur trainer" lol. Most "professionals" are nothing more than jumped up idiot puppy farmers that go through hundreds of dogs just to find one that excels naturally, not through any such skill of there own. I must add that this is my personnel opinion and nothing more :-) Edited October 23, 2013 by decroyffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I really like the breed, I would certainly like to see him working after your training maybe a walk around as we are only local. Atb and good luck.. Delburt0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Advertise the dog on here: http://www.irishwaterspaniels.org.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Fair points. The breeder is well aware that I intend to sell or gift the dog. His personnel circumstances meant the dog had to go. Living in a two up, two down with the wife and kids, plus two adult IWS, a IWS pu,p and an adult cocker isn't ideal, so giving the dog to me was very reassuring to him knowing at the very least, it will be cared for and trained to work. I was going to carrying on the search on behalf of the breeder to rehome the pup. For me he's not in the way and he can stay there for as long as he needs. The idea was to advertise the pup has a sale, so we could ensure whoever was coming to buy the dog, would be under the impression they'd need to part with cash however, after vetting the individual, gift the dog, but he'd rather I train it..!! After reading the above comments I'm happy now that the dog will adjust accordingly when the time comes. I'm a little mythed by the last comment regarding "amateur trainer" lol. Most "professionals" are nothing more than jumped up idiot puppy farmers that go through hundreds of dogs just to find one that excels naturally, not through any such skill of there own. I must add that this is my personnel opinion and nothing more :-) I am an amateur myself, the fact remains no matter how poor the pro is it comes with more weight in a buyers eyes. No offence intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Both u and Kent are right enough with his point about pro trainers, because their 'pro' people assume their always better than an amatuer trainer which is not always the case and they forget that pro may be sharing his time over many many dogs/pups.. My mate took a IWS on and has made a pretty good job off it, infact it's actually at a decent lab stanard and better than quite a lot off lab's, which i mean as a compliment. Strange looking dogs thou esp at the back end. But i have also seen the ammount off work he has put into it to get it to that stage, think it was nearly 3 if not older till it really came good. As u rightly point out there not the easiest off dogs to train to a decent standard, but u deserve praise and a pat on the back if u can get it to that stanard. I'm sure u could sell it when the time comes, big things being u get it to the right standard and get the right owner who can handle(be trained to handle it) As for money, fully trained dogs can go for silly money, BUT by the time u add in vet bills food it will ammount to a decent bit off money and then when u put the hours and hours off training ontop u deserve a decent bit just to make a tiny bit of profit for ur time and effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decroyffe Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Thanks for all the input everyone, all the points have been taken on board. Delbert your more than welcome, it's quite a sight watching an IWS at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Thanks for all the input everyone, all the points have been taken on board. Delbert your more than welcome, it's quite a sight watching an IWS at work. I bet it is, do you train dogs If so u wanna pm we could meet up for a walk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whytie2697 Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hi, sorry to jump the post. I live up in the highlands of Scotland and have been looking Into getting an IWS to train as a gundog for wild fowling and just general pest retrieval. My wife has trained our lab and we feel ready to take on a train another as our old girl is getting on. Has anyone heard of any litters or you get dogs availiable for sale? We'd be very I terested would be used fr working weekly. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangford wildfowler Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I heard these dogs are daft as he'll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlewis Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Daft or not what a lovely looking dog I once had a Cumbrian Rough springer not as large as a english but worked hard great water dog and he had his mad moments shame we lost he to a illness passed on by rats urine. Never found a dog to match him for work rate and loopy anticks. Would love to try a IWS never knew they where out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) Best thing to do is give it to me. Save yourself all that trouble Edited October 28, 2013 by Elby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Lovely dog. I wanted another. And oneday I will. Very powerful and clever dogs with a sense of humour. These dogs can be perfect in the beating line. It's a pity I have just got another Springer pup.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlewis Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Well if you worried about the house training the cumbrian springer I had came from a retiring keeper and was only used to drive birds in and lived in outdoor kennel he soon got use to going out side to do his toilet routine and soon learnt to hunt and retrieve even if he was shy at 1st just give praise when he does well and dont hit when he does wrong just say no bad dog he soon learn. Seen to many dogs flogged just for not dropping the bird on the righthand side etc. Show the dog respect and love and you will have a shooting partner for many seasons. PS yes I would love this dog given to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decroyffe Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Sorry for not keeping tabs on this, I thought the thread was pretty much over and done with. I'm pleased to say the little fella has been successfully rehomed. After a shakey start, through nobody's fault, and totally unforeseen circumstances, he's now settled. Thanks for all the PM's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washway Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I rehomed a 2 year old IWS 6 months ago.She was 'part trained' in obedience lol.Having had 2 IWS before I knew what was coming.I think she is gradually calming down and enjoys retrieving dummies,not so keen on the first widgeon she met this week.Its now wings on the dummy not the full bird.She has taken to the house well and hopefully will make a good wildfowling compaion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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