Chrissmith0881 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Just wondered what people's thoughts are about what caliber's to apply for on first application have got permission on land to shoot vermin / rabbits,foxes and maybe deer and I am hoping to go deer stalking with a friend who goes regularly so was thinking maybe 22lr, 17hmr and 243 just unsure if I would be aloud these rifles on first application. I'm am in the derbyshire area. Thanks for any advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 .22 lr is the most popular rifle in the world for good reason. .243 win is the best crossover deer / fox rifle and don't be kidded into thinking its a poor deer rifle. Asking for these two should be no issue (as there is good reason and they are both the recognised minimum) but they might ask for mentoring or special training for the .243 in particular. The .17 hmr is the poor relation to the small centre fires in all but ammo costs and if you re-load they are the better choice .22 Hornet being my choice by far over the HMR even though my HMR shot well it was very unpredictable and the decreased wind and increase in usuable range and energy was a big plus. .17 hornet and fireball might also be fine choices. See how it goes, firearms licencing depends on the individual (which is fair) and also on the area (which is not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masmiffy Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 If I were you I would put in for all 3 and see what happens. Might be a good idea to ring your FEO and see if the ground you have permission on is passed for 243 I got 22lr 17HMR and 223 on a first application so good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I'd go for those three. I was granted .22LR, .17HMR and .22-250 on my first application. If you don't get what you want, settle for second best and then go in for a variation once you've got a few months under your belt. Edited November 1, 2013 by Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I put down those exact 3 calibres for my first application and have had my ticket just over a week now. Closed on all 3 rifles as expected but I had no problems in what I had asked for and could have had a .308 as well if I wanted one. I have done a DSC1 already but I have no mentoring silliness and AOLQ on all 3 calibres. Put them all down, demonstrate to them that you know what a safe shot it when you have your chat and all should be ok (depending on force area and FEO, which obviously should not be the case but that's a separate discussion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 .22 lr is the most popular rifle in the world for good reason. .243 win is the best crossover deer / fox rifle and don't be kidded into thinking its a poor deer rifle. Asking for these two should be no issue (as there is good reason and they are both the recognised minimum) but they might ask for mentoring or special training for the .243 in particular. The .17 hmr is the poor relation to the small centre fires in all but ammo costs and if you re-load they are the better choice .22 Hornet being my choice by far over the HMR even though my HMR shot well it was very unpredictable and the decreased wind and increase in usuable range and energy was a big plus. .17 hornet and fireball might also be fine choices. See how it goes, firearms licencing depends on the individual (which is fair) and also on the area (which is not) There are certainly times you talk sense, and if you could simply get this Hornet malarkey out of your head then you would probably talk more sense. Not everyone needs a Hornet or Fireball ( circa 700ft lb and 4000ft sec to stop a bunny) and not everyone has any interest in reloading, HMR is a VERY useful calibre for many people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Go for what you can prove a use for.... and don't forget to add moderators for all. These also occupy a slot and need to be applied for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 There are certainly times you talk sense, and if you could simply get this Hornet malarkey out of your head then you would probably talk more sense. Not everyone needs a Hornet or Fireball ( circa 700ft lb and 4000ft sec to stop a bunny) and not everyone has any interest in reloading, HMR is a VERY useful calibre for many people! To be fair I have stopped a lot of bunnies with 12ft lb and 28ft lb so the difference is range in terms of windages and trajectory as regards the humble coney, we don't need 90 or 240 ft lb either to stop one. If you need to extend the range of an LR why not go the whole hog and get a decent light foxer and worthwhile crow round into the bargain. Even if a guy has no interest in hand loads he might spend more on fuel to go shooting than he will on Ammo, .22 lr is daddy of them all on bulk ammo anyhow. Many shooters have never shot more than 25 bunnies a session anyhow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1979 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 yep as already said, ask for all 3, no harm in asking, you could go for, .22lr for rabbits, .22.250 for foxs (as its good fox round ,very flat to) and .243 for deer. Dont forget sound mods for all 3 to good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I would go for the 6.5x55 for your deer calibre personally..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) yep as already said, ask for all 3, no harm in asking, you could go for, .22lr for rabbits, .22.250 for foxs (as its good fox round ,very flat to) and .243 for deer. Dont forget sound mods for all 3 to good luck I don't get that mix, .243 is a Superb Fox calibre, what is the 22-250 doing there, if you are taking out the HMR why not .22lr, then maybe Hornet, .204, .222, or .223 and then .243, is that not a more versatile mix for most people, or simply .22lr and .243. Edited November 2, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1979 Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) Why not replace the .17hmr with a 22.250 nice and flat and no wind issues, true you could go .222 or.223, But of course the .17hmr is a cheaper round and still very effective. Edited November 2, 2013 by simon1979 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Why not replace the .17hmr with a 22.250 nice and flat and no wind issues, But of course the .17hmr is a cheaper round and still very effective. Am I missing something, why a 22-250 and a 243, I'm not having a go, in a 3 gun setup I simply don't understand...22lr, 22-250 and .243? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1979 Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I do see your point dekers, and you are right, .17 22lr and .243. Make a cracking setup for a first fac. I just like to be different with the 22.250, I rember my first fac, they was happy with .22lr and they want me to go a 22, 250 but I ended with a .223. But that was 12 years ago and things have moved on a lot. Sorry I no where going away from original post, Best thing is to keep it simple in what you ask for so the flo can't refuse it Atb Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) This will get all very personal, I have the same as Kent 22lr 22 hornet and 243. These cover all of my shooting needs, yes you have to reload for the hornet bus as I reload for the 243 also its not a problem for me. I go through around 100-150 hornet rounds a month and reloading this amount is ok. I replaced my hmr with the 22 hornet as the ammunition was a big let down for my hmr as you never knew what you were getting. Maybe the hmr ammunition is better now, if so then 22 17 and 243 would be a good combination. Edited November 2, 2013 by Luckyshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 If you are appling for a FAC you should know what you need not what you want ,you need to prove good reason for a FAC if you have no idea what you want you have no good reason Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I do see your point dekers, and you are right, .17 22lr and .243. Make a cracking setup for a first fac. I just like to be different with the 22.250, I rember my first fac, they was happy with .22lr and they want me to go a 22, 250 but I ended with a .223. But that was 12 years ago and things have moved on a lot. Sorry I no where going away from original post, Best thing is to keep it simple in what you ask for so the flo can't refuse it Atb Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 This .22-.17hmr .243 seems to be a rite of passage for first time fac applications. The money you will spend on all 3 will mean you will spend less on good glass for a deer rifle. Cant be convinced on a hmr one bit... For me it would be a .22 and .243 with a good quality scope. People will argue about shooting a 25 lb fox with a hmr but would they shoot a 25lb deer with it...? .22 for rabbits as they are as quiet as a church mouse and the most tractable fox/deer calibre .243 TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 This .22-.17hmr .243 seems to be a rite of passage for first time fac applications. The money you will spend on all 3 will mean you will spend less on good glass for a deer rifle. Cant be convinced on a hmr one bit... For me it would be a .22 and .243 with a good quality scope. People will argue about shooting a 25 lb fox with a hmr but would they shoot a 25lb deer with it...? .22 for rabbits as they are as quiet as a church mouse and the most tractable fox/deer calibre .243 TEH Where did that come from, are you familiar with his financial position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 None of us are.......However he did post "Just wondered what people's thoughts are about what calibre's to apply for" And as my opinion counts just the same as yours..... I put in my bit..... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaquire Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I think (and this is a very novice opinion) that you should go for a .22LR (perfect for bunnies out to 80 yards reasonably comfortably), 22-250 which is ideal for foxes, and a .243 which will drop deer. The reasoning behind this is that on my application I only put .22LR, with the intention of eventually getting a .243. The police had told me I'd have to prove I could stalk before they'd put it on my licence to shoot deer. I then bought the .17HMR which is a lot of fun, but it doesn't really challenge you, as such. It seems to me to be a very much "point and shoot gun" No need for holdover that i've found upto 120 yards which is more than enough for rabbits(?) I kind of wish I'd gone for the 22-250 instead, it's a much more capable fox round, my friend has one and shoots a couple of foxes every week, it's also minimising chances of injuring the fox without the clean kills and i'd still have the .22LR for rabbits, and of course, .243 for deer if they'll let you have it. They can only say no So, I have no experience of shooting a .243, and do not own a 22-250, but that was/is the logical process for me who was in your position not very long ago and didn't take much advice before I applied/bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Guys, better look at what a .243 win can do with a 55 grn bullet and then convince me why anyone might need a 22-250 . The fact is the .243 win has marginally less wind drift the 22-250 marginally less drop at 300 yds, in reality you cant get a fag paper between them BUT the .243 is also all deer legal and being a 6mm has the biggest available range of bullets on the planet I go for the least amount of rifles these days, overlaps are best avoided. Spend more time shooting and less in the shops, yes afford better glass and less time working to pay for it all. The reason we have so many cartridges that do very similar things is to empty the pockets of the less experienced shooter who reads too many reviews in the comics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaquire Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) Guys, better look at what a .243 win can do with a 55 grn bullet and then convince me why anyone might need a 22-250 . The fact is the .243 win has marginally less wind drift the 22-250 marginally less drop at 300 yds, in reality you cant get a fag paper between them BUT the .243 is also all deer legal and being a 6mm has the biggest available range of bullets on the planet I go for the least amount of rifles these days, overlaps are best avoided. Spend more time shooting and less in the shops, yes afford better glass and less time working to pay for it all. The reason we have so many cartridges that do very similar things is to empty the pockets of the less experienced shooter who reads too many reviews in the comics Aren't .243 rounds much more expensive that 22-250? I ask out of genuine curiosty as I own neither That said, someone mentioned before that they could have had a .308 had they wanted, so why not a .22LR, 22-250 and a .308? Edited November 2, 2013 by deaquire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Aren't .243 rounds much more expensive that 22-250? I ask out of genuine curiosty as I own neither That said, someone mentioned before that they could have had a .308 had they wanted, so why not a .22LR, 22-250 and a .308? Because a 22-250 will be fairly useless if you want to eat those longer range bunnies, the .243 win being all deer legal and a great foxer. For many that choice might be great but it misses a lump of stuff. You will find most factory ammo costs quite similar through the normal calibres. Even hornet rounds cost the same a box (like for like) its just you get 25 in a box rather than 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1979 Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 good point kent, you dont always need lots of different rifles, keeping things easy and simple is always a good way to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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