Sorry another one for the plumbers!

[chady]

Hi all.

 

Ok I live in a new house I lived here 3 years and was prob empty about 10 months while the builders sold it.

 

So heating system is about 4 years old with 3 years normal use.

 

It's a combi boiler with plastic pipes and speed fit fittings.

 

It's a 3 story house with 11 radiators.

 

I have had two take a couple of rads of the wall so have had to drain a couple of rads. And a tittle black gunk came out at the end, but not a lot and not excessive!

 

Now my questions are -

 

Should I power flush the system? How many years till you need to power flush?

 

And what is the best inhabitor to use?

 

I have looked at two -

 

Bothe fernox

 

Protecter mb-1 about £40-£50

 

And protector F1 about £20

 

Whitch one is best? Or any other one??

 

And how long dose it last? How many years to replace?

 

Last question how often should you have to blead your radiators? The very highest one (which makes spence) has to be bled at least 1 a month? If not more frequently. But I'm going to keep an eye on it!

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Jamie

[seph234]

I always use this

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/sentinel-x100-central-heating-scale-inhibitor-1ltr/79683

 

you will need two bottles for the 11 rads.

 

i would just mains flush the system before putting the inhibitor back in. using the filling loop you should have under/near the boiler. once complete add the inhibitor refill the system and bleed the rads. the very highest rad will always get the air but eventually you should get rid of the oxygene out of the water.

[chady]

Thanks mate

 

Just open the drain plug and open the filling loop? Is that what you mean and let it flush it out that way?

 

Thanks again

[seph234]

Yeah that's the one, just keep an eye on the pressure if you have a lot of mains pressure or your pressure release might be opening up. if you have thermostatic valves fitted you can shut down the rads and do one by one fairly easily. ideally you want to open all the locksheild valves fully to get better flow through but then you need to balance the system again so i would leave them alone if the systems not to bad.

 

 

 

Joe

[dodgy dave]

fill right up bleed then drain all rad valves open then put cleaner in warm up then drain open all bleed valves when draining then fill with inhibitor

[Asa Bear]

I never power flush anymore (it creates more problems than it solves) just mains flush as described.

 

I have used many different inhibitors through the years but have always rated Sentinel. If you have a lot of sludge put some X400 in and follow the instructions on the bottle. Then put some X100 in and leave.

[figgy]

Flushing with the mains only really works if your drain off is on the last radiator, otherwise the water takes the easiest route between the fill loop and drain off.

 

Best to drain all the water out put in the cleaner and refill, run the heating for a time then drain to get rid of the muck and cleaner.

 

Refill adding the required dose of inhibiter and bleed. Also fit a Magna clean on the return pipe near the boiler, these take the metal oxides"black sludge" out of the system.

 

Figgy

[Del T]

A good hot flush is all that's required. Fill system with water and get warm. Drain system and add cleaner, allow to work for stated time on bottle. Drain again this time leaving the boiler/ tank filling. I normally isolate all but one rad and work from top to bottom for each rad until it runs clear.

Once all rads/pipework runs clear then drain fully again. Refill with inhibitor and vent.

the magnacleans are good as suggested.

 

I too have been called to some jobs where somebody has powerflushed a system and holed a few rads or blown old pipework to pieces (old copper clad steel pipework!).

[chady]

Thanks folks for the help I won't bother power flushing then... Happy days as that saves me a £100!

 

So I'll get that sentinel then which is good as Cheaper than fernox!!

 

Thanks again

Jamie

[-Mongrel-]

I never power flush anymore (it creates more problems than it solves) just mains flush as described.

 

I have used many different inhibitors through the years but have always rated Sentinel. If you have a lot of sludge put some X400 in and follow the instructions on the bottle. Then put some X100 in and leave.

 

Seconded re power flushing. It has its place but it is not the 'solve all' cure for many problems that many inexperienced plumbers thought it to be. It won't clear a blocked cold feed or 'H' in a month of Sundays and is often the first port of call when it isn't really beneficial at all.

 

In the case above, the air in your system probably isn't air at all. It's a sealed system and in theory, once it's fully bled there is nowhere for the air to get into the system.

If there is a lack of inhibitor in the system then the oxygenated water in your system is attacking the steel radiators and producing two things. Black sludge and hydrogen gas, it's probably hydrogen you are bleeding out. (I would tell you how to test for it but don't want you to set fire to anything!)

Both are resolved by adding a cleanser, allowing it time to cleanse, then flush thoroughly and refill with two litres of Sentinel or Fernox.

You can use others but personally I stick with the big two because they are manufacturer approved and I spend a lot of time cleansing, flushing and inhibiting systems as part of the commissioning process in new build properties.

[chady]

Thanks mate I think it is gas as it stinks lol

 

I take it he method you refer to is the inverted cup lol I'm going to get a two litre bottle and build it up over a period of time lol then test it .......

 

And the lack of inhibitor as it's been in prob 3 years now and had a couple of rads drained.

 

Thanks all again

[Yellow Bear]

Hi all.

 

Ok I live in a new house I lived here 3 years and was prob empty about 10 months while the builders sold it.

 

So heating system is about 4 years old with 3 years normal use.

 

It's a combi boiler with plastic pipes and speed fit fittings.

 

It's a 3 story house with 11 radiators.

 

I have had two take a couple of rads of the wall so have had to drain a couple of rads. And a tittle black gunk came out at the end, but not a lot and not excessive!

 

Now my questions are -

 

Should I power flush the system? How many years till you need to power flush?

 

And what is the best inhabitor to use?

 

I have looked at two -

 

Bothe fernox

 

Protecter mb-1 about £40-£50

 

And protector F1 about £20

 

Whitch one is best? Or any other one??

 

And how long dose it last? How many years to replace?

 

Last question how often should you have to blead your radiators? The very highest one (which makes spence) has to be bled at least 1 a month? If not more frequently. But I'm going to keep an eye on it!

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Jamie

One of the main problems with non barrier plastic pipe is absorption of oxygen through the pipe (oxygen diffusion) - in is a well known problem in commercial installations. This means that on installations of this type the level of inhibitor in the system is critical, as no matter how hard you try to vent the system gas still gets in.

The most efficient way to remove the problem is to replace the plastic with a barrier pipe, Pex/Al, or copper.

 

D

[-Mongrel-]

One of the main problems with non barrier plastic pipe is absorption of oxygen through the pipe (oxygen diffusion) - in is a well known problem in commercial installations. This means that on installations of this type the level of inhibitor in the system is critical, as no matter how hard you try to vent the system gas still gets in.

The most efficient way to remove the problem is to replace the plastic with a barrier pipe, Pex/Al, or copper.

 

D

 

It's only 4 years old, should be barrier pipe in this install being a recent new build.

[chady]

Never really looked at the pipe on the heating side.

 

But converted part of garage in to a utility and connected the washing machine water to the bathroom above and that was barrier pipe.

 

So would assume heating is as well.

[-Mongrel-]

It's very unlikely that they would have changed pipe to run the heating. If the water is a barrier pipe then the heating will be too IME.

[chady]

Hi got sentinel x800

 

But it dose not say how long to leave in?

 

Was going to put in tonight then flush through tomorrow? Is that to long?

[-Mongrel-]

Nah, that'll be fine. I've known it to be in for a week without issue. The techie blurb from Sentinel doesn't give a maximum dose period either...

 

 

....Sentinel X800 Jetflo should be circulated, preferably at normal operating temperature, with all valves open and the pump turned to maximum flow for a minimum period of 1

hour or until satisfactory performance is restored.

Edited November 15, 2013 by -Mongrel-

[LondonLuke]

Hi got sentinel x800

 

But it dose not say how long to leave in?

 

Was going to put in tonight then flush through tomorrow? Is that to long?

If it starts melting your radiators then start emptying

[-Mongrel-]

If it starts melting your radiators then start emptying

:lol:

[chady]

If it starts melting your radiators then start emptying

Ha well at least I won't need to clean the system again lol

 

Thanks guys

[chady]

Thanks for the help I think I've done it?

 

I turned all radiators off via the thumastatic valve and left the one open on the rad I was draining the water from!

Then opened the drain screw and then opened up the filling loop! And turned one rad one at a time via the firmastatic valve and shutting off before moving to the next one! Leaving about 5 min for each rad to be flushed!

 

Was that right?

 

Ok one problem I have found is when draining!

 

It's a 3 story house with the ground floor having 3 rads fed from the pipes coming from the ceiling! All 3 rads have drain valves on.

 

Then the 1st floor rads I think go up from the floor and the second floor rads come up from the floor!

 

Now when I tried to drain the system, I put a hose on one drain and opened valve up and water came out as norm

 

I then open up the top floor rads air vents and fine!

 

Water stoped coming out pipe so opens middle floor rads air vents and water would just come out! Like they were full!

 

Opened all ground floor rads vents and put house and drained all ground floor rads.

 

But could not seem to drain middle floor rads? Like there was an air lock?

 

How should I drain the system?

 

Or how do I get rid off the air lock if it's that caursing it?

[vampire]

Open the bleed valves and make sure all lockshields are open,they will be partially closed from balancing the rads,if no joy try filling it whilst draining this will pressure any air lock out,you should hear it move the air.

[figgy]

The rads on your middle floor are filling up from the floor above. In order to drain the system,open the valve on all rads and drain from one on the ground floor,opening the air vents on top floor first then when flow out the hose slows down open the air vents on rads on middle floor and so on.

 

On refilling the system close all air vents and fill ground floor rads first venting all air out of the rads before moving up to the next floor doing the same floor by floor, if you still have an airlock you need to back fill through a drain off to push air past the point it's locked.

 

 

Figgy

Edited November 19, 2013 by figgy

[chady]

Thanks for your help.

 

Yea that was what I did.

 

But got to a point where no water came out of pipe on all ground floor rads and could not open any air vents on but I see what you mean about back filling.

 

Thanks again

[Daany]

Fit one off these to the system will collect all the **** out of your system very easy to fit and easy to service iv got 4 sat in the garage could do you 1 for £60 plus a bottle of fernox f1 cleaner and fernox f3 inhibiter in with the price these filters Realy do help and do a good job