byjovecarruthers Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 If you read his biography he states that when he was arrested he was a terrorist prosecuting a policy of violent struggle to overthrow white minority rule and that he was heavily influenced by Marx, Stalin, Mao, Che Guvara and other communist key figures. He pleaded guilty to planning and executing acts of violence and was given a custodial sentence where he had the good sense to reinvent himself and, on his release from prison and election to president, persued a policy of forgiveness and reconciliation. He came from a similar mold as Robert Mugabee but I suspect that history will view them differently. The question now is how bad the civil unrest in SA will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chacotawas Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 "I cannot agree more. I was a bystander and saw only a small portion of the whole picture. The White South Africans forged their future through sweat and tears and it is their bravery that enabled the society to be formed. Im my view South Africa belongs to the Whites as much as it belongs to the Blacks. We cannot judge South Africa by our own standards. I have picked up hitch hikers who have told me that I cannot drop them off at this village since they would be killed on the spot. We are not dealing with a society that we can understand by our own experience. Terrorist or not .. his leadership presided upon a period of change that resulted in a very favourable outcome to what could have been a horrific period in history." said splashy. I think aris and splashy are right. I'd just like to say: Terrorist? Freedom Fighter? Of course he was both. Which he was to you depended, obviously, on how his activities affected your interests and those of your tribe. This is entirely reasonable in an imperfect world, one in which the search for perfect solutions is a fool's game. It's when you are unable to decide between the two that you should know you're in serious (moral) trouble. Witness 21st century Britain where we have become so advanced as to be barely able to distinguish between friend and foe. History will indeed judge Mandela- but it may not be we who write it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 R.I.P Nelson Mandela. A sad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkeyes Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 REST IN PEACE Not the best analogy as the majority of South Africans had fewer rights than the white minority, Northern Ireland was a divided and contested country but the people lived under the same laws. Say what you want about him but I can't understand the comments of the people that say he wasn't the biggest icon of our age, if he isn't who is? As for being a terrorist, yes and no, in the same way the French resistance were both depending on what side you were on. great post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I just hope it all blows over before the Xmas telly schedule kicks in. I can't be the only person monumentally depressed at the thought of weeks of Nelson Mandela tributes and biographies on the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 DILLIGAF plus one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I just hope it all blows over before the Xmas telly schedule kicks in. I can't be the only person monumentally depressed at the thought of weeks of Nelson Mandela tributes and biographies on the box. +1. And all the snivelling creeping politicians lining up to gush tributes. I won't be wasting £1.20 on a newspaper paper today. Probably give them a miss till the middle of next week. Something else hould have happend by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 It is almost as bad as when Diana died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) If you want a giggle, read the Wikipedia page about Winnie Mandela. Whilst she is a convicted criminal of some repute, she doesn't hold her ex-husband in high regard. She's not a fan of Archbishop Tutu either. Quality. On a serious note, all the loony fringes and freedom fighters can take a leaf out of Mandela's book - renounce violence, play the game and then the world adoration, nobel prizes and film deals follow. Got to be better than screaming at people from a pavement outside a mosque in Finsbury (for example). On the downside, you'll have Bono hanging round you all the time and making a nuisance of himself. Maybe hate preaching with suicidal religious tendencies isn't all that bad after all. Edited December 6, 2013 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 If you want a giggle, read the Wikipedia page about Winnie Mandela. Whilst she is a convicted criminal of some repute, she doesn't hold her ex-husband in high regard. She's not a fan of Archbishop Tutu either. Quality. On a serious note, all the loony fringes and freedom fighters can take a leaf out of Mandela's book - renounce violence, play the game and then the world adoration, nobel prizes and film deals follow. Got to be better than screaming at people from a pavement outside a mosque in Finsbury (for example). Winnie is the personification of evil IMHO. I don't believe Mandela ever did renounce violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Winnie is the personification of evil IMHO. I don't believe Mandela ever did renounce violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 For those who do not believe he was a 'terrorist' as we define it today: I am not condemning the man. In the end, everything turned out well, but it does bring into question our current view and definition of 'terrorism'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) I'm waiting on the grief whoring from Bono. Wait.... I actually don't. Edited December 6, 2013 by McCloggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Adams & MacGuinness are bit players even by Irish standards certainly not even in the same league as Collins or O'Connell, the comparison has no merit Mandela was fighting a "Just" cause unless someone is going to stand up and defend Apartheid, Bin Larden please have a word with yourself or leave the debate to the grown ups The "Prominent & Iconic" status of Mandela flows from his magnitude for forgiveness his desire to find peace to act as a conduit to bring reconciliation to a nation and a beacon for a different option to the world when war and blood shed are so often the easy option. Churchill certainly charismatic the right man for the job in 1940 talked a good game that said the UK kicked him out day after the war ended, he would struggle to make top 10 Your top 10 maybe not others mandela will always be a reformed terrorist Edited December 6, 2013 by castletyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I spent a large part of my life in Africa and anyone who thinks Mandela was a saint or anything close to it is a fool. He was the first head of the MK and there is no doubt he had blood on hands but that said, the handover of power would have been a lot bloodier without him. Love him or hate him, he made a lot of significant sacrifices for his beliefs and the saddest thing is that those sacrifices were all for nothing because those came after him squandered those sacrifices completely. Mandela's Rainbow Nation has been dead and buried for years and in it's place is a sewer of crime, corruption, murder and genocide and it's going to get a whole lot worse when Madman Malema & his Economic Freedom ****ups take power as he surely will one day..... and when that happens, God help SA, especially the whites in SA because he's going to make Mugabe look like a saint. As to when Mandela really died...... that's a very good but irrelevant point. Most of the black tribes of southern Africa have a belief that when someone dies but can't be buried on tribal lands, they can take a piece of buffalo thorn (ziziphus mucronata) and lay it on the body of the grave of the departed and the soul is transferred into the branch or twig and that can then be taken to the tribal lands/family plot and buried in place of the actual body and the Mandela family gathering some months ago looked suspiciously like that's what was going on.Whatever the real situation is, I wish the country and it's peoples a peaceful time in the next days, weeks, months and years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Anyone who advocates violence and I include all governments in that to bring people or countries to their way of thinking are terrorists.to enforce your views onto others by means of violence and killing is wrong whoever you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 It's generally history, or at least the people that write it, that judge their actions. I imagine history will look favorably upon Mr Mandela and be not quite as keen on Osama (unless extremist Islam wins, that is). Unfortunately the inevitable outcome of current political policies, just a matter of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny12w Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 about sums up the world we live in today. Margaret Thatcher passes away & people are literally dancing on her grave. Nelson Mandela the terrorist dies & all the world are upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Thousands of people are gathering outside Nelson Mandelas House. Del Boy and Rodney have told them to **** ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) when all said and done he majorly helped bring down the Apartheid regime and they wont be missed Edited December 6, 2013 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 All I know is two frineds of mine are white south africans who left SA and there farms and family there in fear of there safty. One of these serves in the british army along side her brother and another guy who is an electronics technical officer (civilian) for the MOD, both are really nice people and have lived in SA and still have family there. Neither of them had a good word to say about Mandela ! I wasnt there and I cant really judge so I will take the side and support the two very good people i know, in there opinions as they are good people, so i would support the good people so to speak. Doesnt matter how much he repents etc, fundemently he supported/ordered/ assisted in killing other humans in a terrorist mannor ! Not an easy agruement / debate to have, so the best thing we can do is be accpeting of others differing opions i guess and hope SA can stay peacfull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) both are really nice people and have lived in SA and still have family there. Neither of them had a good word to say about Mandela ! talking of nice south africans who remembers this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU Edited December 6, 2013 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 when all said and done he majorly helped bring down the Apartheid regime and they wont be missed There was a lot wrong with the old regime but frankly, the new one is FAR worse in every possible way including human rights abuses & to find examples of that just do a search on phrases such as SA genocide etc, SA 6 week old baby raped or SA 4 year old sodomised in street. What's more, there's not a single African country that has made a success of black rule. Africa should & could be the most successful continent on the planet. It has endless minerals, precious metals & stones, a large & cheap workforce & lots of areas where a spanner would almost grow if planted the right way up but instead, it's a basket case of crime & corruption that has to be bailed out to the tune of billions. Not millions, but billions every year. I love Africa but the problem with it is that it's wasted on the Africans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I love Africa but the problem with it is that it's wasted on the Africans! there you have it the reason mandela did so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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