Do I Need A Leader?

[wymberley]

Guys,

As title. Just got a 10ft spinning rod so there's some poke and am using 12 lb mono. My heaviest lure is 1 1/2 oz so will I or won't I? If yes, any suggestions as to what strain?

Many thanks,

Phil

[kent]

Do you mean a shock leader? I use one with braid normally fluorocarbon but that's mainly to deal with abrasion in the surf fishing for bass and braid has a total lack of stretch which is something of a double edged sword. Leader as in wire? yes if it Pike or toothy fish you seek. Very heavy lures and very heavy gear for very big fish then its common to add a short leader of very heavy mono but we are talking 18" not three rod lengths.

[oscarsdad]

You don't really need one but it wouldn't hurt.

 

I would suggest something like 20lb clear amnesia or similar. If you are fishing in freshwater you need a wire trace anyway so a thicker leader will not have a negative impact on presentation.

 

Tie the main line to the leader with a small neat knot eg uni knot to not impede casting too much.

[sako751sg]

I always put a swivel on,and a leader a couple of lbs lighter of around 18inch on and hopefully if I stick it snaps below the swivel and not above.

[oscarsdad]

I always put a swivel on,and a leader a couple of lbs lighter of around 18inch on and hopefully if I stick it snaps below the swivel and not above.

Why would you want a lighter leader? Unless using braid which would prevent you pulling for a break, why would you want a lesser breaking strain leader? I'm confused!

[sako751sg]

Because the lighter leader snaps off leaving the main line intact therefore the main line is not affected and doesn't need replacing. Don't be confused,its pretty simple.

[oscarsdad]

Why would you want your leader to snap and therefore lose a lure? He's using 12lb mono which is cheap as chips so no need to protect it.

 

Casting a 42g lure with a leader of a breaking strain of less than the 12lb he is using is just asking for trouble and will result in crack offs during casting, losing lures and possibly causing people to get hit with heavy lures with trebles attached.

[aga man]

fresh water; yes 18" wire trace swivel at one end snap tacle at the other.

salt water; no need for trace or leader with your lure/mono combo

[sako751sg]

Why would you want your leader to snap and therefore lose a lure? He's using 12lb mono which is cheap as chips so no need to protect it.

Casting a 42g lure with a leader of a breaking strain of less than the 12lb he is using is just asking for trouble and will result in crack offs during casting, losing lures and possibly causing people to get hit with heavy lures with trebles attached.

Please read my post again,I didn't tell him what to use. I simply told him what I do,and I will explain once again why I would want my leader to snap and not the main line.

During the course of a season,with snapping and line damage,by the end of season I would have to re-line the reel or put on more backing to make the most for casting ability,esp with lighter lures.

Now,for the last three seasons I have put on a leader a couple of pounds lighter than the main line,and believe me,I don't want the leader to snap and lose a lure as you suggest,BUT,if any line does snap it will be hopefully the leader,and not the main line,hence no need for adjusting it every year. Remembering that the heaviest lures I use are around 20g there is no chances of crack offs and the fishing is freshwater,salmon,sea troot and troot.

Now,short of drawing a picture I cant really explain any better.

[wymberley]

Many thanks, All. It's over 30 years since I last went spinning and just couldn't remember. Not all the lures are that heavy so on the basis that keep it simple is always best, I'll go without.

[Tim Kelly]

If you get some 30lb wire traces to tie to the end of your mono before the lure you will be about right. Wire needs to be heavier than the main line generally as it gives a bit of latitude if it gets bent or kinked a bit. Wire that's too light will not survive many fish before needing replacing.

[-Mongrel-]

Please read my post again,I didn't tell him what to use. I simply told him what I do,and I will explain once again why I would want my leader to snap and not the main line.

During the course of a season,with snapping and line damage,by the end of season I would have to re-line the reel or put on more backing to make the most for casting ability,esp with lighter lures.

Now,for the last three seasons I have put on a leader a couple of pounds lighter than the main line,and believe me,I don't want the leader to snap and lose a lure as you suggest,BUT,if any line does snap it will be hopefully the leader,and not the main line,hence no need for adjusting it every year. Remembering that the heaviest lures I use are around 20g there is no chances of crack offs and the fishing is freshwater,salmon,sea troot and troot.

Now,short of drawing a picture I cant really explain any better.

 

I'm not going to get into the argument about leaders here, suffice to say, the only leader I use for lures is when I'm fishing braid (most of the time), in which case it has a 60cm mono leader. It's more snag resistant and improves presentation. However, I wouldn't dream of using a main line for two seasons, let alone 3! Mono degrades in sunlight, not to mention all the rubbing and little nicks it picks up. I re-spool the reels every year be it braid or mono. They do get quite heavy use though.

 

 

Many thanks, All. It's over 30 years since I last went spinning and just couldn't remember. Not all the lures are that heavy so on the basis that keep it simple is always best, I'll go without.

What are you intending to catch? It does make a difference.

Edited December 9, 2013 by -Mongrel-

[Dunkield]

What you intending to catch isn't always what you end up catching.

If there are pike in the water I wouldn't risk fishing without a trace, but I am not sure that is what you are asking?

[wymberley]

What you intending to catch isn't always what you end up catching.

If there are pike in the water I wouldn't risk fishing without a trace, but I am not sure that is what you are asking?

Yep, I didn't say I must admit. Kent pinged it straight off - the question simply related to 'shock'. The quarry is bass from two very clean beaches - Exmouth and Budleigh Salterton - may also have been Padstow and St Ives as well but it seems none of our Cousins Jack and other Pixkies actually fish.

[kent]

Yep, I didn't say I must admit. Kent pinged it straight off - the question simply related to 'shock'. The quarry is bass from two very clean beaches - Exmouth and Budleigh Salterton - may also have been Padstow and St Ives as well but it seems none of our Cousins Jack and other Pixkies actually fish.

 

Assuming we are looking at Bass, you don't need to work on the casting shock leader for this type of fishing 1oz x10 (shock leader calcs) is a 15lb leader but you will not get anything like the sort of energy you will generate out of a lead weight and a pendulum cast so 12lb is just fine. Add a small stiff shock tippet 18" or so of thicker clear mono if you wish (I often do) it will protect the most vulnerable bit of the line from abrasion and help stop tangles with the front hook if you working lures like big poppers aggressively.

[wymberley]

 

Assuming we are looking at Bass, you don't need to work on the casting shock leader for this type of fishing 1oz x10 (shock leader calcs) is a 15lb leader but you will not get anything like the sort of energy you will generate out of a lead weight and a pendulum cast so 12lb is just fine. Add a small stiff shock tippet 18" or so of thicker clear mono if you wish (I often do) it will protect the most vulnerable bit of the line from abrasion and help stop tangles with the front hook if you working lures like big poppers aggressively.

Many thanks, in most cases these are actually built-in with a thicker mono from the hook threaded with barrel weights through the body of a Mevagissy sand eel to a swivel.

[fenboy]

You dont really need a leader casting that weight , recommendation is 10lb per ounce .

I would though personally use a short length of 20lb flurocarbon if targeting bass.

 

I guess you know you will be pretty much wasting your time trying to catch a bass at this time of year ?

[-Mongrel-]

 

.....we are looking at Bass, you don't need to work on the casting shock leader for this type of fishing 1oz x10 (shock leader calcs) is a 15lb leader but you will not get anything like the sort of energy you will generate out of a lead weight and a pendulum cast so 12lb is just fine. Add a small stiff shock tippet 18" or so of thicker clear mono if you wish (I often do) it will protect the most vulnerable bit of the line from abrasion and help stop tangles with the front hook if you working lures like big poppers aggressively.

 

Pretty much agree with all of the above, personally I use braid connected to 20lb mono, it improves presentation and gives better abrasion resistance.

[Fisherman Mike]

Depends very much on the rods test curve and action relating to the line diameter and casting weight. What is the recommended casting weight and line diameter of the rod ?..its usually written on the lower part of the blank.

 

A softer action rod will be more forgiving on the cast than a tip action one for example. I always use a shock leader for spinning, and bait casting especially if I want to use the full action of the rod and cast to its maximum potential. Remember a well matched a rod and line and casting weight of 1/2 an oz will cast as far as similar with 1 1/2oz.

 

You should be ok with 12 lb straight through but like I say I would normally use a shock leader which is the length of the rod plus 3 feet for casting plus at least three turns around the spool...but I would reduce the main line diameter so rather than use for example 12 lb main line I would use a 15lb shock leader and 8lb main line. I don't often use a steel trace when I'm spinning as the majority of fish I hook using this method are hooked in the mouth and don't take the lure fully near the teeth. I've been spinning this way for over 40 years and in that time I've never had a fish bite through the mono leader (honest)

 

I find personally that fluorocarbon lines are inferior to monofilament lines for spinning, too stiff and inflexible, braided lines are good but make sure you give some attention to knot choice a poor knot can reduce the breaking capacity of the line by over 50%.. Use good quality swivels and make sure the treble points are as sharp as you can get them.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Fisherman Mike

[kent]

You dont really need a leader casting that weight , recommendation is 10lb per ounce .

I would though personally use a short length of 20lb flurocarbon if targeting bass.

 

I guess you know you will be pretty much wasting your time trying to catch a bass at this time of year ?

 

Bass have changed, in the South they are caught year long though numbers change and size class, even up in Morecambe bay Bass are still taken by Cod seeking anglers off the beach. This past 4 weeks I know of two separate 6lb fish. One November maybe 10 yrs back there was a monster Bass taken off Rossal beach Fleetwood that pushed close to our UK shore caught record. Pretty much wasting your time in the North still but speak to the guys South and its a different story__

[kent]

Depends very much on the rods test curve and action relating to the line diameter and casting weight. What is the recommended casting weight and line diameter of the rod ?..its usually written on the lower part of the blank.

 

A softer action rod will be more forgiving on the cast than a tip action one for example. I always use a shock leader for spinning, and bait casting especially if I want to use the full action of the rod and cast to its maximum potential. Remember a well matched a rod and line and casting weight of 1/2 an oz will cast as far as similar with 1 1/2oz.

 

You should be ok with 12 lb straight through but like I say I would normally use a shock leader which is the length of the rod plus 3 feet for casting plus at least three turns around the spool...but I would reduce the main line diameter so rather than use for example 12 lb main line I would use a 15lb shock leader and 8lb main line. I don't often use a steel trace when I'm spinning as the majority of fish I hook using this method are hooked in the mouth and don't take the lure fully near the teeth. I've been spinning this way for over 40 years and in that time I've never had a fish bite through the mono leader (honest)

 

I find personally that fluorocarbon lines are inferior to monofilament lines for spinning, too stiff and inflexible, braided lines are good but make sure you give some attention to knot choice a poor knot can reduce the breaking capacity of the line by over 50%.. Use good quality swivels and make sure the treble points are as sharp as you can get them.

 

The freshwater pike will often bite you off above the wire trace when it leaps. Some Saltwater fish do not have the mouth size and dentistry to bite you off above the lure, I have quite successfully fished for Bluefish etc without a wire leader (teeth far worse than pike litrally capable of removing fingers but cant swallow a real big lure like a pike totally can) but should not try no wire on Cuda, Pike without Wire is just a big no-no

[Fisherman Mike]

The freshwater pike will often bite you off above the wire trace when it leaps. Some Saltwater fish do not have the mouth size and dentistry to bite you off above the lure, I have quite successfully fished for Bluefish etc without a wire leader (teeth far worse than pike litrally capable of removing fingers but cant swallow a real big lure like a pike totally can) but should not try no wire on Cuda, Pike without Wire is just a big no-no

Yes I agree if you are dead baiting where the fish can ingest the bait before you bend into it but I have also seen some terrible damage caused to pike mouths by thin diameter uncoated wire

 

I an 80lb monofilament leader Pike fishing with dead baits and even crimped strimmer cable on occassions similar to a salt water tope rig. I've 100's of pike this way and never been bitten off.

 

However Kent and others advice is good if you are an inexperienced angler... but try a larger diameter plastic coated steel trace to start with rather than the ultra thin diameter "cheese wire."

[Fisherman Mike]

Bass have changed, in the South they are caught year long though numbers change and size class, even up in Morecambe bay Bass are still taken by Cod seeking anglers off the beach. This past 4 weeks I know of two separate 6lb fish. One November maybe 10 yrs back there was a monster Bass taken off Rossal beach Fleetwood that pushed close to our UK shore caught record. Pretty much wasting your time in the North still but speak to the guys South and its a different story__

Very true I had a 4 pound fish off chesil only 3 weeks ago

[wymberley]

 

 

I guess you know you will be pretty much wasting your time trying to catch a bass at this time of year ?

Sea temperature is still up but you're right.

 

'Thurs sumat gwainon down yer'

 

More than 60 years ago I can remember my father catching a serving plate of a plaice and a 5 lb bass on the same cast - 2 hook paternoster. Things just went down hill from then on for the Exmouth shore angler. Even when I returned home from HM Forces service and lived 100 yards from the shore, it really wasn't worth the effort. I blame the "fresh local sea bass brigade".

 

However, things may just change. The deep water channel caused by the River Exe ran along the coast for nearly 3 miles with the fairway buoy almost at Staight Point should anyone know the area with a large sandbank (Pole Sands) on the seaward side. Suddenly, you could almost see it happening on every tide, the channel took a right hander straight out to sea (Maer Rocks) after less than a mile - the commercial docks closure probably didn't help - particularly with the fact that the estuary channel has started to silt up. This to such a degree that at low water the RNLI boat had no water and it's cost several £100K to build a re-located lifeboat station and slipway.

 

Now the area where the channel no longer flows is also starting to silt up and the sandbank has all but joined the shore where there are rocky ledges. It was this area that produced the best fishing and may well do again if the trawlers can't get in too close. (The estuary is already a designated bass nursery area.)

 

I don't think I'll need the Greys Phantom but the Hardy Longbow is still in fine fettle. The fly kit is also all ready and the spinning almost there. Come the spring, I'll be there!

[kent]

Yes I agree if you are dead baiting where the fish can ingest the bait before you bend into it but I have also seen some terrible damage caused to pike mouths by thin diameter uncoated wire

 

I an 80lb monofilament leader Pike fishing with dead baits and even crimped strimmer cable on occassions similar to a salt water tope rig. I've 100's of pike this way and never been bitten off.

 

However Kent and others advice is good if you are an inexperienced angler... but try a larger diameter plastic coated steel trace to start with rather than the ultra thin diameter "cheese wire."

I do not agree with pretty much everything said above and very much doubt another guy on here (of experience) who has commented already will. 80 lb mono will not stand up to a Pikes maw as an equal to 30 lb wire and will effect nothing in a positive way over wire. I am not about to come the big I am but trust me I do know this game pretty much inside out back to front