Nikk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Well, when your average secondary school head is well over £100K it makes you realise a lot of people are creaming it. How many secondary schools in your county/town? Jobs for the boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Well, when your average secondary school head is well over £100K it makes you realise a lot of people are creaming it. How many secondary schools in your county/town? To be fair, school headteachers have immediate and ultimate high levels of responsibility, directly culpable for all of the children in his/her care, no squirming and lying their way out, if the **** hits the fan. Edited December 12, 2013 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 If you mean 'banned', no it hasn't my MP employs his wife in the office. Nial. Nial. So does mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 To be fair, school headteachers have immediate and ultimate high levels of responsibility, directly culpable for all of the children in his/her care, no squirming and lying their way out, if the **** hits the fan. Comparable to a PM who may take the country to war ? I still believe its got out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Comparable to a PM who may take the country to war ? I still believe its got out of control. I'm not sure what context you're using, the PM job is tightly coupled and he acts as a chairman or director, a head teacher is immediately culpable for all if the children's lives in his/her care, a 'loosely coupled' responsibility. I guess a analogy is a surgeon, his patient on the table, his/her stage, if it goes wrong they are responsible, not the hospital manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I take your point but I used to be responsible for road accident remedial measures, amongst other things, I was the manager and employed engineers to do the actual work. Maybe its just me but I still felt personally responsible for their work, saving lives and so did everyone else. I dont think a PM who said "I was just the manager" after a damaging conflict, would last long - bit like Blair really - just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I'm not sure what context you're using, the PM job is tightly coupled and he acts as a chairman or director, a head teacher is immediately culpable for all if the children's lives in his/her care, a 'loosely coupled' responsibility. I guess a analogy is a surgeon, his patient on the table, his/her stage, if it goes wrong they are responsible, not the hospital manager. If there are failings the headteacher would pass the buck on to teachers faster than I can drink a pint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88b Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) I don't see many if any of them leaving because the pays too low, although I did hear of a few that had to forego moat cleaning and duck mansion refurbishment due to lack of funds. Edited December 12, 2013 by 88b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) I take your point but I used to be responsible for road accident remedial measures, amongst other things, I was the manager and employed engineers to do the actual work. Maybe its just me but I still felt personally responsible for their work, saving lives and so did everyone else. I dont think a PM who said "I was just the manager" after a damaging conflict, would last long - bit like Blair really - just my opinion. I think we're on the same hymn sheet, he wouldn't, but others (his minions) would suffer at the same time. I guess I'm trying to justify why people get paid more than the prime minister, and to me it's an easy algorithm of risk vs severity, which I'm sure you know about. Eg a pilot with 200 souls on board, long haul is paid lots, because he/she is implicitly responsible for those people's lives depending on his/her desicions, these jobs HAVE to pay well, the pm doesn't have such a direct impact, regardless of the desicions because its smoke and mirrors, diluted through the management systems. If there are failings the headteacher would pass the buck on to teachers faster than I can drink a pint.Not true, see my post above, the head teacher has ultimate responsibility, loose coupling again, legally, there is no 'get out' clause for a head teacher, same as my analogy of a surgeon or a airline pilot. Edited December 12, 2013 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Do you work in teaching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Do you work in teaching?I'm not getting into this, but my wife does (part time). and yes I teach at uni level, I'm not building a platform for you, as I made it quite clear is was an analogy, levels of immediate responsibility regardless of your experiences you may have had/have. Good and bad. Edited December 12, 2013 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I wouldn't increase their pay by 11p let alone 11% because they are all useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I'm not getting into this, but my wife does (part time). and yes I teach at uni level, I'm not building a platform for you, as I made it quite clear is was an analogy, levels of immediate responsibility regardless of your experiences you may have had/have. Good and bad. Just because they have some responsibility they don't deserve £100,000 per year plus a final salary pension. The teachers do far more work than they do and gets a fraction of that, the teachers also have a huge amount of responsibility, not just for teaching but they're doing the social workers/polices job for them half the time. My point is this...there is one thing I have noticed in my life and that is; management are nearly always useless clowns that are either career people or were bad at what they did previously or they have bum licked their way to the top. That latter point is very relevant in the public sector because it is highly political. The private sector is very much the same, I was forced in to an office position ion my last job and after one year I couldn't stomach the idiocy day in and day out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Just because they have some responsibility they don't deserve £100,000 per year plus a final salary pension. The teachers do far more work than they do and gets a fraction of that, the teachers also have a huge amount of responsibility, not just for teaching but they're doing the social workers/polices job for them half the time. My point is this...there is one thing I have noticed in my life and that is; management are nearly always useless clowns that are either career people or were bad at what they did previously or they have bum licked their way to the top. That latter point is very relevant in the public sector because it is highly political. The private sector is very much the same, I was forced in to an office position ion my last job and after one year I couldn't stomach the idiocy day in and day out. Are you a teacher? I'm interested in you post about how a head teacher would shrug any issues off to a class teacher, or was it just rhetoric? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 People in favour keep saying 'you pay peanuts, you get monkeys', but if they get the payrise we are just getting better paid monkeys. They are not going to change, they just get to **** us over for even more of our money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) I firmly believe its like the cold war arms race - they have a faster/more agile/longer range plane than me - I need a ........ one. Everyone looks at everyone else's salaries and if you are looking for more money you just reevaluate your job - sometimes you can get +10k by changing from an Assistant Director to a Head of Service. I know there are national pay scales but its all gone a bit crazy and salaries never come down and the pensions are 1/2 finishing salary if you work 40 years in Local Government and 2/3rds of finishing salary in the police, for full reckonable service. Each director vies with others for bigger budgets and therefore more salary and so it feeds down the line. CExecs negotiate their own salary with leaders of Council's, so, monkey or not, they get the best deal they can and when its not your money, whats another 10k to get your man or your woman ? Sorry, leaning towards a rant. Edited December 12, 2013 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Are you a teacher? I'm interested in you post about how a head teacher would shrug any issues off to a class teacher, or was it just rhetoric? Come from a family of teachers P.S teaching at Uni isn't being a teacher if you see my point. I've taught but I'm not a teacher. Edited December 12, 2013 by Nikk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Performance related pay is the only way to go. They fail on a promise then they don't get paid. See how long it takes them to start telling the truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Come from a family of teachers P.S teaching at Uni isn't being a teacher if you see my point. I've taught but I'm not a teacher. So it's rhetoric, second hand, emotive information then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Are you an actual teacher? If not you are doing the same. My wife is a real full time teacher, my mother and grandfather was also, plus lots of our Friends and family. 100 grand a year for someone who flits between schools and dumps most of the work load on to the deputy heads is ridiculous especially when you look at the state of our education in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Could never work in the public sector, the few times either me or my wife were involved it became a talking shop with no direct action and **** covering. A friend works for the DWP and some of his stories about wasted money and resource are toe curling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) They run GB Plc. Their money is pathetically low in the circumstances, the leaders of virtually every County Council earn more than the Prime Minister and most plumbers working for http://www.pimlicoplumbers.com/services/plumbing, make more than MP's. Edited December 13, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think head teachers do earn their crust. I've got two in the family, and I honestly think they work a hard stressful job with huge responsibility. As do most teachers too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveyg Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 In my opinion pay rises should be based on results. In the current climate an 11% rise cannot be justified, If they believe they are under paid then go find another job. I agree the salary/perks for the top MP's should be at a level to attract the right caliber,your local MP should not be driven by the salary but by the role and opportunity to serve the community. They are a million miles off the minimum wage.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think head teachers do earn their crust. I've got two in the family, and I honestly think they work a hard stressful job with huge responsibility. As do most teachers too! I'm not slagging them off the point I was making (perhaps badly) was they pay in certain public sector jobs has sky rocketed through the roof and I wonder if it's attracting the wrong kind of people. Headteachers, council managers and all the other management roles didn't earn anywhere close to the levels we are seeing now. In principle a good wage is fine but add on that final salary pension and it's beyond ridiculous and it isn't sustainable. The people who are suffering the cuts are the front line people the actual teachers, police, nurses because their wages are much lower to start with. I don't think 100k a year is ok unless they didn't get the final salary pension. Anyway the reason we got on to this is why do so many public sector workers earn more than an MP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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