old rooster Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 When I first left my parents house I lived in a street a bit like that with my then girlfriend. Quite a lot of layabouts around but I moved to the area for work and that was the only housing I could afford at the time. I'm sure that throughout history people here have lived a variety of lifestyles, some by choice, some do to either good or bad fortune, their own endeavours or a mixture of all those things. Given the current situation globally we can't expect the squalid lifestyle some folks live to be eradicated, things can't do anything but get worse unless there is some sort of radical change. It is a global issue as part of the ongoing problem is caused by the movement of people from one country to another. Will we eventually see massive unrest from both ends of the scale with those who are better off getting fed up with funding more and more people that don't work (for whatever reason) via ever increasing taxation and those at the other end of the affluence scale getting angry that their benefits are being reduced? The Basic economics of it all aren't that hard to understand, more people working supporting less people not working equals either massive increased government borrowing to fund the balance, increased taxation of the workers or decreased benefit payments. Whichever government gets that poisoned chalice to drink from will be unpopular whichever way they try to balance that lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 What gets me is the squalor that a lot of this type choose to live in, it don't take much to be clean and tidy. When I first left my parents house I lived in a street a bit like that with my then girlfriend. Quite a lot of layabouts around but I moved to the area for work and that was the only housing I could afford at the time.I'm sure that throughout history people here have lived a variety of lifestyles, some by choice, some do to either good or bad fortune, their own endeavours or a mixture of all those things. Given the current situation globally we can't expect the squalid lifestyle some folks live to be eradicated, things can't do anything but get worse unless there is some sort of radical change. It is a global issue as part of the ongoing problem is caused by the movement of people from one country to another.Will we eventually see massive unrest from both ends of the scale with those who are better off getting fed up with funding more and more people that don't work (for whatever reason) via ever increasing taxation and those at the other end of the affluence scale getting angry that their benefits are being reduced? The Basic economics of it all aren't that hard to understand, more people working supporting less people not working equals either massive increased government borrowing to fund the balance, increased taxation of the workers or decreased benefit payments. Whichever government gets that poisoned chalice to drink from will be unpopular whichever way they try to balance that lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 my point being is I have a niece who has VERY severe disabilities one of them being a terminal degenerative illness she is due into hospital in the next couple months for a massive spinal op and hip replacements at the same time she is only in her 30,s and she is having to fight tooth and nail to try and get her benefits reinstated and then you get **** bags like the main characters in that programme whingeing that they cant afford their smack and drink rant over calming down now and scratching my head wondering what planet these men on the "masking" programme are from And this highlights the problem that we have. It's not as black and white as most politicians make out. There are the genuinely needy and there are the scroungers. The problem starts when everyone takes offence when a comment is aimed at the scroungers. I see no reason why those who are capable of working should not work as long as it's meaningful and provides some sort of training. I think if we get rid of universal benefits, as someone has already pointed out, we will end up like the USA. Read "The Street Lawyer" by John Grisham. It's fiction but insightful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 What gets me is the squalor that a lot of this type choose to live in, it don't take much to be clean and tidy. Not sure how many fags or cans of beer would have to be sacrificed to buy the bin bags, brooms and shovels though? For some the obvious priority is how to fund the next fix of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 There is something to be said for Workhouses like in the Victorian days would be ideal for this type of scum . I don't mean living in squalor although they chose to now . I mean if you can't afford to make ends meet then be rehoused with your family and given work to put food on the table . You don't work you don't eat. Unfortunately we made these people, we gave them a benefits system that was rotten, why should we cry about it now? We should have changed it sooner rather than later after a whole new class system was born out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Unfortunately we made these people, we gave them a benefits system that was rotten, why should we cry about it now? We should have changed it sooner rather than later after a whole new class system was born out of it. So just keep going as we are then H? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Unfortunately we made these people, we gave them a benefits system that was rotten, why should we cry about it now? We should have changed it sooner rather than later after a whole new class system was born out of it. That's not a reason not to do anything about it - that's like saying that a water pipe is leaking and has flooded a village, we should have stopped it leaking when it was a puddle but since it's now a lake we may as well leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Unfortunately we made these people, we gave them a benefits system that was rotten, why should we cry about it now? We should have changed it sooner rather than later after a whole new class system was born out of it. No doubt the benefits system wasn't designed to be rotten - it just developed that way when the scroungers saw a way to feed off it. The 'Owt for nowt brigade' as my dear daddy used to say. Then followed on by the left wingers who saw a way to give to the 'poor', when in their eyes the rich were getting too much..... It's never too late to change, and the howls from the lefties are getting louder. A bit like our friend, the workers friend, Bob Crow still living in his council house when paid £145,000 year. He has 'No moral duty' to move out of his taxpayer-subsidised house. Yes - I do love the true blue-blooded socialists! Lots of them about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 That's not a reason not to do anything about it - that's like saying that a water pipe is leaking and has flooded a village, we should have stopped it leaking when it was a puddle but since it's now a lake we may as well leave it.[/quote You would have to as a wildlife trust would have taken it on with the help of us tax payers!] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 That's not a reason not to do anything about it - that's like saying that a water pipe is leaking and has flooded a village, we should have stopped it leaking when it was a puddle but since it's now a lake we may as well leave it. ++1 Totally agree with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 So just keep going as we are then H? That's not a reason not to do anything about it - that's like saying that a water pipe is leaking and has flooded a village, we should have stopped it leaking when it was a puddle but since it's now a lake we may as well leave it. Where did I say that? The facts are that the system has been changed over a period of many years and our society has changed and adapted to it. If I were to put up a slight change it would be to remove the possibility of a poverty trap, by increasing the minimum wage and changing threshold benefit payments (and while we are at it lets get rid of monthly payment of benefit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Where did I say that? The facts are that the system has been changed over a period of many years and our society has changed and adapted to it. If I were to put up a slight change it would be to remove the possibility of a poverty trap, by increasing the minimum wage and changing threshold benefit payments (and while we are at it lets get rid of monthly payment of benefit). Care to suggest how it might be funded old bean??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob13 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?ID=5690 Looks like the old bill have taking a little interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Eye wash for the masses. So 'diverse and vibrant' have a whole new meaning in this wonderfully PC world we now inhabit. http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?ID=5690 Looks like the old bill have taking a little interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Care to suggest how it might be funded old bean??? I don`t think you understand, if you raise minimum wage and raise the benefit threshold you still have a poverty trap. Therefore you lower the threshold so it is a net gain for the tax payer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Where did I say that? The facts are that the system has been changed over a period of many years and our society has changed and adapted to it. If I were to put up a slight change it would be to remove the possibility of a poverty trap, by increasing the minimum wage and changing threshold benefit payments (and while we are at it lets get rid of monthly payment of benefit). As I mentioned on a different thread, putting up the minimum wage will increase costs all round and we all complain on here how expensive things are. Bring back the 10% tax level that Gormless got rid off and then pay thinks like housing benefit direct to landlords. Those that are able should work for their benefits and learn as they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 ...but if it gets people working it brings in revenue through taxation. Surely it is a good thing all round as it is cutting benefits and getting rid of a reliance culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 ...but if it gets people working it brings in revenue through taxation. Surely it is a good thing all round as it is cutting benefits and getting rid of a reliance culture. One small snag with this logic - it puts up the costs to industry and makes them uncompetitive. Hence the net result is a loss of jobs.... I suppose it will work in the service industries though, that we all pay the bills for. Rats, I forgot - local government is having to shed jobs due to the decreasing support from central government.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 it would be an eye opener thats for sure FEO's read ALL the shooting & gun related forums ...ask me how I know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Because you either work in a dept or you are one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I don`t think you understand, if you raise minimum wage and raise the benefit threshold you still have a poverty trap. Therefore you lower the threshold so it is a net gain for the tax payer. I think I probably do understand the reality of it all, theoretical changes are all very fine but few actually work quite as planned. The whole employment/benefit thing is a real minefield and as Dead-Eye has mentioned there has to be consideration for how raising the minimum wage effects our ability to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonix Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 This makes an interesting read too! Death threats..... http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/benefits-street-residents-subjected-to-death-threats-after-channel-4-show-airs-9043932.html Surprising?? Not really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) FEO's read ALL the shooting & gun related forums ...ask me how I know!! how do you know, had a letter? seriously they cant be reading this stuff some members still have licences which im sure makes us all sleep better at night Edited January 7, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 the proposed rise in the minimum wage hopefully to something you could live on may help encourage people to think about work, its only worth giving up your benefits if your not worse of i would imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Surprising?? Not really! Not really when you have morons on here implying the same.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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