muffin Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hi all now the shooting season over tell me what you find best to use and price my syndicate is keen on enforcing non toxici use bismuth because my guns not approved for steel what alternatives best now is the time to sort not September Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Even though your guns not approved for steel many can be used. It works and it far cheaper than Bismouth and the other alternatives. If we loose the fight to keep lead then it will be a case of changing your gun or changing what you choose to try for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I would stick to the Bismuth, they do the job much better than standard steel cartridges. I guess it depends on how many non toxic cartridges you get through in a season, and whether the extra cost is a major factor. The high performance steel cartridges seem to be fairly good, but that would mean buying a new gun, which may be worthwhile if you shoot a lot of duck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I would stick to the Bismuth, they do the job much better than standard steel cartridges. I guess it depends on how many non toxic cartridges you get through in a season, and whether the extra cost is a major factor. The high performance steel cartridges seem to be fairly good, but that would mean buying a new gun, which may be worthwhile if you shoot a lot of duck It doesn't necessarily mean that at all. I have two guns that are not steel proofed that have had hundreds of HP steel through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 that may be so motty but you pays your money and takes your chance,ive been usin the eley lightning steel on the flight ponds with ex results [steel proof gun of course ]so now I have 5 shotguns all steel proof now,cos if theres a lead ban the bottom will fall out of the market for older guns,,,if you can afford the likes of purdey you can afford bismuth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I should personally more question a cheap new shotgun in 12 ga that wasn't proofed for HP steel than an older magnum that was made before steel ever existed. One thing I shouldn't do is fire through too tight a choke (most older magnums are tight choked) as personally I do feel you run a higher risk of overpressure in the barrel. Its like slugs in that regards some say don't and some say ok its fine, the thing is steel honestly doesn't need anything like the choke of lead. Proof is an over working pressure test remember and no barrel can resist direct contact with steel pellets, despite what "steel proof" says in the eyes of many Consider also the talk of certain non toxic being known to be more toxic than lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 interesting subject If lead goes not only a lot of guns worth not a lot more expense for newcomers to start Still need alternative to lead that is cost effective and does the job in all guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 interesting subject If lead goes not only a lot of guns worth not a lot more expense for newcomers to start Still need alternative to lead that is cost effective and does the job in all guns Can't see it happening to be honest, cost of the raw materials is one of the reasons the price stays high on some non toxics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 it may happen if folk didnt witter on about steel being acceptable. I thought one of the spanish makers had a new sort of shot being launched soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 it may happen if folk didnt witter on about steel being acceptable. I thought one of the spanish makers had a new sort of shot being launched soon? Steel is acceptable, it will kill at suitable ranges. Problem with alot of non toxic shot, is the tungsten. Tungsten is not going to get any cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Grahamch maybe you do not like steel but many of us do and i would back some of the new steel shells as being as good as lead. Steel is acceptable , the big problem is many shooters do not know how to use it. Its a very different beast from lead. Big matt I do not think Tungsten is going to be about much longer. Its been banned in Denmark now and several other European countries are likely to follow . Edited February 9, 2014 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Grahamch maybe you do not like steel but many of us do Steady on Anser, I would wager the vast majority of people would prefer lead over steel any day of the week. It's acceptable in large shot sizes, pushed fast, but it has massive limitations compared to lead, not least the guns suitable for its use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Grahamch maybe you do not like steel but many of us do and i would back some of the new steel shells as being as good as lead. Steel is acceptable , the big problem is many shooters do not know how to use it. Its a very different beast from lead. Big matt I do not think Tungsten is going to be about much longer. Its been banned in Denmark now and several other European countries are likely to follow . What i found most interesting about the Denmark banning it, was that is was based on an American study from 2005, now given that the americans banned lead before us, i'd have thought they'd have jumped on tungsten a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I have been using a lot of gamebore 3 inch mammoths in no 3 and finding it just as good as the old lead loads. It will kill a duck at 50 yards clean which is far enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Hi Very interesting question Are you buying in bulk for your syndecit ? Or are you supplying paying guns on a sold day basis ? Do the majority of your guns have steel proof guns Just a few questions to answer as a group before you decide on your non toxic choice All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Grahamch maybe you do not like steel but many of us do and i would back some of the new steel shells as being as good as lead. Steel is acceptable , the big problem is many shooters do not know how to use it. Its a very different beast from lead. Big matt I do not think Tungsten is going to be about much longer. Its been banned in Denmark now and several other European countries are likely to follow . Some steel loads are very good yes , but as good as lead i would have to disagree. For the OP I would suggest he sticks to Bismuth , for the simple reason I know he favours the 101's and they were as good as they are due to the lightness of the barrels , I would not risk HP steel through them and non HP is simply not good enough for a lot of occasions . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I have been using a lot of gamebore 3 inch mammoths in no 3 and finding it just as good as the old lead loads. It will kill a duck at 50 yards clean which is far enough for me. Maybe so....but through what gun? As I said earlier steel in a large shot size, pushed fast is ok but the OP was specifically asking about loads for use on a game shoot, and there aren't that many game guns that can handle HP steel loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toplever Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 If the OP's syndicate has pegged drives and appoints a cartridge picker up on the duck drives, the captain can see what carts each gun is using. Sanctions can then be applied if all is not in order. Most guns on a game day have a few non toxic in their other pocket and everybody has their own non-toxic preference. Sell them a box of bismuth on the day if they have come along without, is one solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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