Should Scotland keep the pound?

[neil3728]

Looks like its all sorted.

 

From the BBC

 

"Westminster's main political parties will warn that an independent Scotland would not be able to join a currency union with the rest of the UK."

[Sprackles]

On one of the fishing forums I frequent...the majority of commercial fishermen wish to stay within the union (I know there are not that many fishermen left)

Because of the way Scotland currently administers its fisheries, a lot of Scotsmen have been re-registering their boats to English ports as opposed to Scottish.

This removes them from the draconian mindset of Wee Ecks control where Scotsmen are persecuted by the fisheries department whereas Englishmen are not.

The latest edict to come from this department is to stop these fishermen transferring their Quota from the Scottish register to the English although it makes no difference to the overall UK allocation.

This is seen as a fore runner of worse things to come and those within the industry recognise that for them Scottish Independence will not be a good thing.

For the laymen and the 16 and 17 year olds who have no idea on what goes on in industries like this, all they know is what they are being told by politicians.

The arguments over the pound are just minor details....the real meat on the bones issues are not being explained fully.

[Piebob]

Scottish people still receive a more generous public spending allocation per person than the rest of the UK.

 

I recall reading somewhere (can't recall where it was though, so no reference) that Northern Ireland receives more per person, with Wales only slightly behind Scotland. There are also areas of England (North East / North West being stand-outs) that receive more than anyone.

[Gimlet]

 

I recall reading somewhere (can't recall where it was though, so no reference) that Northern Ireland receives more per person, with Wales only slightly behind Scotland. There are also areas of England (North East / North West being stand-outs) that receive more than anyone.

 

You're no doubt right. NI has always, for obvious reasons, been a special case. There's nothing wrong with some regions receiving more help than others according to need, but Scotland has the Barnett formula to guarantee its special treatment. No other region has such a contractual advantage. Barnett was devised as a sweetener to keep the lid on Scottish separatism and as such it has muddied the waters and caused more problems than its solved.

[Flashman]

I'll give you a reason , because we haven't been asked. You get the luxury of a referendum, we don't. Our politicans might be fawning all over you but if it went to a poll in in England, we'd cut you adrift in a heartbeat. That would not have been the case 5 or 10 years ago, but attitudes have hardened. I used to be a committed unionist and lived in Scotland for a couple of years in the 90s. I always believed the UK was a culturally and geographically diverse place and all all the better for it. greater than the sum of its parts. I But I've gradually been worn down by the constant bitching, sniping and anti English resentment that emanates from Scotland. In my simple view it comes to this. English people like the Scots and like the union. Too mamy Scots hate the English and want a divorce. Well that's the way it used to be , but guess what? We've come round to your way of thinking. I am proud to be British but sad that Britain as a country may not be around for much longer, destroyed from within. If that happens, those who bring it about should reap what they sow, total and utter separation

 

If the Referendum vote is no, then fine. If it is yes, then can anyone give me a good reason why England's relationship with an independent Scotland should be any different to our relationship with Yemen, St Lucia or some other random country?

 

To me its all or nothing. Stick with us and enjoy the union that has worked so well for 300 years, or divorce us completely. No devo max flim flam. No having your cake and eating it with some halfway fudge, no pound, no Queen as head of state. If that is what you want, enjoy your nuclear free, socialist utopia and good luck with keeping hold of your guns.

 

Sorry at the rant, believe or not I do like the Scots and deep down want the union to stay, but enough is enough.

 

Absolutely correct.

 

I got bored of listening to all the Jocks working in London who said they hated the place, the English are arrogant, everything was better north of the border, etc. Well, nobody forced them to work in London. Frankly, London's epically multicultural, so the Jocks were another bunch of foreigners, the trouble was, the moaned more than the rest put together!

[aris]

A Scots friend (who has a sense of humour) has a t-shirt which says "Scotland - we invented everything".

[grrclark]

Gimlet, i couldn't agree more, we have allowed conjecture and rhetoric around the Barnett formula to seep into our public conscience and it has started to build an ever widening divide between the Scot's and English. At least between those who can't be bothered to look beyond stupid prejudices and actually try and gain an understanding.

 

It annoys me intensely that a lot of Scottish people have a big chip on their shoulder, we don't need to be the wee man who is down at heel and a self imposed supplicant to our southern neighbours. Equally i get just as annoyed with the arrogance/ignorance displayed by the minority of English folk that believe population size infers some sort of greater value.

 

Some folk have mentioned the Scot's booing the English football and rugby teams; when that is simple sporting rivalry that is fine, no worse than Liverpool fans booing at Man U, or fans of every other English team booing Man U for that matter. Booing the national anthem i think is incredibly disrespectful, regardless of the nation. Don't fool yourselves this is unique to the Scot's though, it is reciprocated in equal measure.

 

It is really sad that a muppet like Salmond can cause bitter resentment between the ordinary people of Scotland and England. I think that is why the majority of Scot's can't stand him either.

[kdubya]

Have a think b4 you post AVB. Your coming across as a numpty. Made sense to me but then us Scots invented most things in the world. Don't you owe us for our inventions and contribution to mankind. Phone, push bike, penicillin, tar, dolly the sheep , etc etc. What have u brought to the party? Will young, Elton, jimmy saville and THATCHER

dont make the mistake of thinking the English as a whole liked that woman those that actually got their hands dirty for a living hated her as well.

 

KW

[Blunderbuss]

dont make the mistake of thinking the English as a whole liked that woman those that actually got their hands dirty for a living hated her as well.

 

KW

 

It's a little presumptuous to think you speak for everyone "who got their hands dirty for a living" don't you think?

Gimlet, i couldn't agree more, we have allowed conjecture and rhetoric around the Barnett formula to seep into our public conscience and it has started to build an ever widening divide between the Scot's and English. At least between those who can't be bothered to look beyond stupid prejudices and actually try and gain an understanding.

 

It annoys me intensely that a lot of Scottish people have a big chip on their shoulder, we don't need to be the wee man who is down at heel and a self imposed supplicant to our southern neighbours. Equally i get just as annoyed with the arrogance/ignorance displayed by the minority of English folk that believe population size infers some sort of greater value.

 

Some folk have mentioned the Scot's booing the English football and rugby teams; when that is simple sporting rivalry that is fine, no worse than Liverpool fans booing at Man U, or fans of every other English team booing Man U for that matter. Booing the national anthem i think is incredibly disrespectful, regardless of the nation. Don't fool yourselves this is unique to the Scot's though, it is reciprocated in equal measure.

 

It is really sad that a muppet like Salmond can cause bitter resentment between the ordinary people of Scotland and England. I think that is why the majority of Scot's can't stand him either.

 

great post

[Kes]

I find Blunderbusses sentiment in tune with my own but very well expressed. Gimlet, your insight is helpful, Grrclark too particularly about Salmond who is only in it for himself and looks like I would expect a wild haggis to.

[pycoed]

dont make the mistake of thinking the English as a whole liked that woman those that actually got their hands dirty for a living hated her as well.

 

KW

Oh no we didn't!

[Denboy]

From what I have read and heard it seems that Scottish voters either

1) believe that they will be better off independant

2) would prefer to stay within 'The Union' but believe that they can be successful as an independant state

And Englishmen/women (politicians aside) believe that we would be better of without Scotland.

The key here is 'belief'. They are no hard facts because of the complexity of it.

But Based upon this strong belief all around seems to be no downside of independence for Scotland. I'm sure you'll make a go of it.

On the subject of politicians I was speaking to some Conservative MP's and an ex cabinet minister at the weekend. They all admitted that the reason that the Conservatives appear so passionate about staying together is simply that they don't want to be seen as the party who presided over the split. Financially they are all for it and it would also mean the end of the Labour party.

The end of the Labour Party? How would this happen?

[felly100]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_for_constituencies_in_Scotland_2010%E2%80%93

Scotland likes the Labour Party.

[norfolk dumpling]

My old company took over a Scottish one - oh they were a well-balanced lot with chips on both shoulders. Always with a cheery (no sarcastic) observation on everything they were asked to do but despite the troubles and the effect this had on trading there NI staff were wonderful, proffessional and supportive. Had trouble working in NI in the 70/80's but couldn't wait to get out of Glasgow!

 

Working practices we inherited included getting paid for 1hrs overtime but taking 45mins for tea. When we spent time there sorting out massive backlogs discovered they wouldn't do Saturday overtime (Sat am was getting over a Friday night skinful and of course Sat pm was footy) but they would work Sunday ot - anyone guess when time and a half and double time rates were paid??

 

It was wonderful going back for yet another working party the year they got the wooden spoon in the old Home Internationals - England beat them 5 . 1. And we were there to enjoy the misery.

[Gimlet]

There is a group - I forget what they're called - of Right wing Scottish separatists who want a truly independent Scotland, with its own currency, free of the EU, with a highly competitive, low spending/small state, low tax economy re-centred around technology rather than dwindling oil reserves. A sort of Nordic Hong-Kong, anathema to Salmond's national socialists. They stand no chance of success because, despite Scots being essentially a conservatively minded people, the nation remains inexplicably wedded to discredited high spending, centralised, top-down socialist statism. Why is this? And its not a sarcastic question, I genuinely want to know. With a real chance of winning a secession referendum it seems a spectacularly wasted opportunity.

[islandgun]

There is a group - I forget what they're called - of Right wing Scottish separatists who want a truly independent Scotland, with its own currency, free of the EU, with a highly competitive, low spending/small state, low tax economy re-centred around technology rather than dwindling oil reserves. A sort of Nordic Hong-Kong, anathema to Salmond's national socialists. They stand no chance of success because, despite Scots being essentially a conservatively minded people, the nation remains inexplicably wedded to discredited high spending, centralised, top-down socialist statism. Why is this? And its not a sarcastic question, I genuinely want to know. With a real chance of winning a secession referendum it seems a spectacularly wasted opportunity.

Thanks for your balanced sensible approach. Can you provide any more info of the above? sounds good to me

[Laird Lugton]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2014/01/the-right-wing-case-for-scottish-independence/

 

http://www.wealthynation.org

 

Is this them?

Edited February 14, 2014 by Laird Lugton

[Gimlet]

That's them. You beat me to it.

 

Less a political movement than a centre-right think tank than made up of academics, economists and business leaders who argue that Scotland's future lies in low tax free market entrepreneurialism.

I don't know much about them but I was reading about them somewhere and it struck a chord.

[islandgun]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2014/01/the-right-wing-case-for-scottish-independence/

 

http://www.wealthynation.org

 

Is this them?

 

 

That's them. You beat me to it.

 

Less a political movement than a centre-right think tank than made up of academics, economists and business leaders who argue that Scotland's future lies in low tax free market entrepreneurialism.

I don't know much about them but I was reading about them somewhere and it struck a chord.

Thanks for that I will check them out, don't know about others but I'm amazed at the lack of information/propaganda that is being delivered to the Scottish directly via TV etc, Perhaps the outer Hebrides is a bit to far from Edinburgh

Edited February 14, 2014 by islandgun

[Flashman]

Trouble is, the Scots voted in the BNP SNP, with Salmon at the head, whose manifesto was in reality based solely around this vote.

 

It's too late now to complain about the tone of the debate - that was set by the SNP's rabid anti-English stance - or the lack of content. You got what you wanted and voted for, so don't bleat that the rest of the UK want shot of the whole mess.

 

Finally, if the building of the Scottish Parliament building is an omen for Scottish independence, I suggest you all flee down South now, before the border closes and your trapped up there!

[Gimlet]

 

 

Thanks for that I will check them out, don't know about others but I'm amazed at the lack of information/propaganda that is being delivered to the Scottish directly via TV etc, Perhaps the outer Hebrides is a bit to far from Edinburgh

 

That's centralised statism for you. Its the same in England. The south west and Northumberland are not metropolitan London but they get treated as though they are.

Regional difference are even more marked in Scotland. What would happen to Salmond's people's republic if Shetland and the Western isles voted for independence? That would be the oil and the whisky gone...

[islandgun]

 

That's centralised statism for you. Its the same in England. The south west and Northumberland are not metropolitan London but they get treated as though they are.

Regional difference are even more marked in Scotland. What would happen to Salmond's people's republic if Shetland and the Western isles voted for independence? That would be the oil and the whisky gone...

Quite

[Piebob]

Trouble is, the Scots voted in the BNP SNP, with Salmon at the head, whose manifesto was in reality based solely around this vote.

 

Nonsense. The majority of Scots voted for other parties, or didn't vote. The same as in UK general elections. That's why, at present, the majority of Scots don't want to leave the UK

[secretagentmole]

Just think of all the major employers that will be moving all Scottish resources South.

 

Wee Eck does not want anything Nuclear up there, wave bye bye to the Faslane sub base, those jobs can all come back South, all Scottish staff of course may remain north of Hadrian's wall, same with all other Navy, Army and Airforce bases, your land, we do not want to be seen as an occupying force. Once again all staff that are English will be repatriated.

[Piebob]

Just think of all the major employers that will be moving all Scottish resources South.

 

Wee Eck does not want anything Nuclear up there, wave bye bye to the Faslane sub base, those jobs can all come back South, all Scottish staff of course may remain north of Hadrian's wall, same with all other Navy, Army and Airforce bases, your land, we do not want to be seen as an occupying force. Once again all staff that are English will be repatriated.

 

Right enough. We don't have forces bases anywhere else other than the UK. Come on guys - think things through! Instead of posting the first "insight" that pops into your head.