Shoot Improvement Work

[Kes]

Ok Chaps, i am after picking brains.

Trying to improve returns on our shoot, currently middle 20 percents.

No shoots adjacent and 1200 acres, not all of it useful say 50%. Four pens, 1500 birds to wood. Poults Black necks, quite a lot of disturbance in one wood at least. Most woods lack 'bottom' in the later season and returns drop dramatically after December.

 

What would you do to improve returns?

 

Draught proof pens with bales/something else?

Add bottom to release woods with wires/ brash ?

Hand feed ?

Feed kibbled maize?

 

Cover crops are at about 4/5 acres some rather small areas.

Foxes under control but land is mainly grass as dairy predominates in Cheshire.

Any thoughts, advice for us?

 

Thanks for any 'useful' suggestions.

KES

[Paul223]

All of what you mention are good ideas

 

auto feeders work well too, set to just spread for a few seconds each day, and set at the right times to attract out to drives in morning or close to pen afternoon to roost

 

Spice, cooking oil, kibbled maize and a touch of grit mixed in to good wheat

 

Water!

 

How mature are the woods

[Konnie]

hard to say without seeing everything what you say is correct better making the woods takes a long time, make sure your cover strips are top condition (good habitat)but you seem fairly clued up why do you think returns down

bad shooting if your firing shots

not seeing them/holding birds

if you can identify either of these you know which road to go down

[magman]

Ok Chaps, i am after picking brains.

Trying to improve returns on our shoot, currently middle 20 percents.

No shoots adjacent and 1200 acres, not all of it useful say 50%. Four pens, 1500 birds to wood. Poults Black necks, quite a lot of disturbance in one wood at least. Most woods lack 'bottom' in the later season and returns drop dramatically after December.

 

What would you do to improve returns?

 

Draught proof pens with bales/something else?

Add bottom to release woods with wires/ brash ?

Hand feed ?

Feed kibbled maize?

 

Cover crops are at about 4/5 acres some rather small areas.

Foxes under control but land is mainly grass as dairy predominates in Cheshire.

Any thoughts, advice for us?

 

Thanks for any 'useful' suggestions.

KES

 

 

To be fair that's not a lot of birds for the size of your land so the spread between pens would be huge

 

constant Dogging in could help ?

[r1steele]

Ok Chaps, i am after picking brains.

Trying to improve returns on our shoot, currently middle 20 percents.

No shoots adjacent and 1200 acres, not all of it useful say 50%. Four pens, 1500 birds to wood. Poults Black necks, quite a lot of disturbance in one wood at least. Most woods lack 'bottom' in the later season and returns drop dramatically after December.

 

What would you do to improve returns?

 

Draught proof pens with bales/something else?

Add bottom to release woods with wires/ brash ?

Hand feed ?

Feed kibbled maize?

 

Cover crops are at about 4/5 acres some rather small areas.

Foxes under control but land is mainly grass as dairy predominates in Cheshire.

Any thoughts, advice for us?

 

Thanks for any 'useful' suggestions.

KES

Grit where your feeders are can make a big difference (as paul mentioned). If you have any forestry cutting down trees near you it could be worth asking if you can take a few of loads of brash to try and give your woods a bit more cover. Either build them into cones or lay them in small lines going towards your flushing points. Without seeing you land it's hard to tell but good food, good cover/warmth and good water are the main things for habitat and vermin control along with hard dogging in should keep the birds where you need them.

[bakerboy]

Have a look at the conference information I have just posted in the Game Keeping Forum.

 

I think this could be really useful for a lot of us on PW.

You can choose to do either the One day or both.

 

BASC and G&WCT initiative

Edited March 11, 2014 by bakerboy

[Kes]

Thanks chaps, shooting could be better, we are thinking of shooting more days early season to catch them whilst they are on the ground. Our average shot to kill ratio is 4/5 to 1 and the ground doesnt produce really high birds. The woods are mature and in some cases the ground cover is suffering, come late November when the birds have eaten a lot theres more bare ground - the first frosts kill the bracken and, without support it falls and provides little cover. We suffer a bit from poaching but retaining the birds I feel is mainly down to habitat - we just dont have enough for the whole season. I am keen on more and better cover crops - some last year were poor and, lest face it 4 acres of rubbish crops arent going to hold anything. Whats the best recipe for cover crops from you guys, Kale and quinoa? Feed and cover? Anyone have a really productive mix?

[subsonicnat]

Don`t Forget the obvious one that most shoots forget. Nipple Drinkers:

This cuts down infection by 75% , you can`t beat them, No more crapped in drinking bowls, not so much water for cleaning needed either.

Best thing they ever brought to a Pen.

[scotslad]

Like everyone has said hard to say without knowing ur ground, everything u mentioned should help, as others have said water and grit might help depending on ur soil and wot natural water about.

Wot's ur long term %'s like? This year not been a good year for many shoots, most in my area sre down around 10% from a more normal year

 

Wot type of woods/trees are they? Would u be allowed to do any felling to let more light in and try to get flusjhing points further back in woods?

 

Would u be able to plant a hedge, small soft woods and top them or strip of reed canary grass round some of ur cold woods on windward side? Perenial so should grow back every year

 

Do u know where ur birds are wandering too? Can u drive/feed things different to try and stop them? More dogging in?

 

As for numbers of birds. Wot have u released in the past? Did that affect ur %'s. While 1500 is not a massive ammount for the area, it may be too many for ur ground if it is not good, or for ammount of hoppers/time u can spend om ground (ie a FT keeper hand feeding could hold far more birds than a diy syndicate on the same ground)

Depending wot work u can actually do i'd be tempted to reduce the bird numbers to pay for some work/more cover crops etc, no point in buying birds for ur neighbours to shoot, even 100 poults less would prob cover a GCWT advisor to come out and give u 1-1 advice

But plenty of info on there site as well as basc's

 

The other thing is possibly ring ur birds from different pens so u know wot pen birds go where. Always thought about doing it, but too embarassing when ur neighbours are shooting all ur birds

 

Ps Do poults go onto the nipple drinkers no problem? Never used them before, but seems like a good idea.

Edited March 11, 2014 by scotslad

[Paul223]

Nows the time to put down a good carpet of brash over that bracken, it'll grow through and keep up all season, don't forget to leave walk ways and flushing points

[scotslad]

We run wire lines down the woods to hold brash up so u dont need as much brash. Originally had it about knee hieght which was too low going to try it around 3ft ish this year. Does work well the brash to hold up the dead bracken

[Ferretboy111]

Stick some photos up. Could be 101 things wrong with the place. Water, pen position, grit, predators, etc.

 

Given your releasing 1500 blacknecks which hold like glue even on the worst ground I'd be more inclined to the fact of lack of low roosting and predator numbers. I've tagged birds a good few times on my place- the results are amazingly interesting! A

[Paul223]

How much natural food about? Hawthorn, mountain ash, stubles

[Brad93]

What predator control have you got in place? Opening up space in your wood would be a good idea. They will roost in the thinker hedges once some light gets in there.

[CharlieT]

I'm presuming you're birds roost in the woods and are fed in the cover crops from where they are shot.

 

If this is the case, good cover crops are essential and any improvements to these in size and quality is money well spent. Along with dogging in birds from outlying areas. You will find that when birds have fed, they will seek somewhere warm and sunny, so think about planting something tall like maize adjacent to the crops on the south side to provide warm sheltered areas for birds to tie up.

 

If time allows, you will also find that hand/trail feeding mornings and late afternoon also encourages birds back onto the feed rides.

 

This, along with warming up the woods with brash or planting should make a vast difference.

[scotslad]

Just remember if ur shooting 20% of 1500 roughly 300 head yet if u only put 1000 down and managed to shot 30% ur still shooting 300 head and saving a fair bit of money to either do habitat work or plant cover crops etc and not a ridiculously high % wich hopefully should be achievable

 

Is there no exp guns or keepers in ur area u can turn to for a bit off eyes on advice?

 

Finally possibly the simple fact is ur neighbouring ground is better suited for ur birds than ur's, so they will always want to head that way until u make ur's better, althou they willl always wander down hill as season goes on

[handlebar]

Here's a link to the initiative that Bakerboy was talking about http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/277620-basc-gwct-initiative/

[David BASC]

With an island shoot doging in is very important, there will be key leak points so concentrate on them.

 

Crops well sown are important- never over sow as this make the crops way too dense. All kale can be a bit wet, maize can be a good all rounder, but you will need to supplement the feeding. Talk to the seed suppliers they will give good advice for your area and soil type.

 

Keep on top of pest a predator control.

[Colc08]

How much preditor control do you do? It amazes me how many people over look this.

 

Fox control is vital and should be top of your list as far as preditor control goes. This time of year you need to be knocking over the vixens before 1 becomes half a dozen or more.

 

Would also be advisable to run a few larsen traps as clearing up all your crows and magpies will hugely increase your chances of upping your numbers with wild broods.

 

A lot of places stop feeding straight after the last shoot whre as we keep feeding right up untill may. We have held the surviving birds from ********* off and will now repay us with wild broods of thier own.

 

There may be many other things you can do to improve your shoot but it is still well worth thinking about the above.

[lordripon]

I would suggest you invest your cash wisely... planting cover crops every year is burning your budget badly, put reed canary grass into 25%of them per year, it will last at least 10 years providing great warm winter cover, and brilliant nesting cover come summer, allowing you to spend cash on planting ground cover plants around your pen areas warming the release/roost sites will hold your birds much better than changing cover crops yearly.

I also provide fresh water at every feeder, the birds will wander miles for water.

I would finish shooting at Christmas.

and make sure your release timing is right, releasing your birds 16-17weeks before your first day will give them the minimum time to disappear on you !

hope this helps

[bakerboy]

http://forums.pigeon...wct-initiative/

 

I think you may well to take part in this scheme by the GC trust and BASC.

[Paul223]

I would suggest you invest your cash wisely... planting cover crops every year is burning your budget badly, put reed canary grass into 25%of them per year, it will last at least 10 years providing great warm winter cover, and brilliant nesting cover come summer, allowing you to spend cash on planting ground cover plants around your pen areas warming the release/roost sites will hold your birds much better than changing cover crops yearly.

I also provide fresh water at every feeder, the birds will wander miles for water.

I would finish shooting at Christmas.

and make sure your release timing is right, releasing your birds 16-17weeks before your first day will give them the minimum time to disappear on you !

hope this helps

Agree with most of what you say, however I don't understand your comment about releasing birds 16-17 weeks before your first day, could you elaborate please

[Scully]

For the past 3 weekends we've been thinning out our main wood (still a long way to go) to allow sunlight to get down to the ground and create undergrowth and therefore warmth and cover at ground level. Most of the wood we log for either ourselves or to sell to fund the shoot, the remainder we pile in lines to create runs. Even in the space of two seasons we now have Brambles and Foxgloves making a comeback and lots of other woodland fauna which we hadn't seen before.

A lot of the hedgerows have been eaten out by sheep; these are being double fenced when funds allow and we have just received 1000 mixed Hawthorn, Blackthorn and Hazel saplings, and spent this morning planting around 250 of them. The existing ones we rip out and throw the brash into the boundaries of smaller woods as the cocksfoot etc grows up through them in Spring/Summer and then collapses into the brash and creates warmth and shelter from the wind. Nothing likes wind.

We also plant cover crops at random sites to hold birds away from our boundaries and all manner of pest control throughout the year. Our trail cam' has shown a Fox in the same place at the same time on two occassions this week, but so far whenever we've gone out it's been a no show,so we'll be out again this week as the only pheasants we're seeing now are cocks, so hopefully the hens will be sitting.

Will mention Reed Canary Grass to the others; we had looked at it but decided against it, but if it's as good as it is claimed above, then it must be worth a go.

[ColinF]

Will mention Reed Canary Grass to the others; we had looked at it but decided against it, but if it's as good as it is claimed above, then it must be worth a go.

I looked in to planting some Reed Canary grass, but apparently it can cause staggers in livestock if they graze on it. Obviously, you don't want cattle & sheep grazing on your cover crops, but I couldn't guarantee that it would never happen. As the farm we shoot over has livestock, it was a non starter for us.

[Scully]

I looked in to planting some Reed Canary grass, but apparently it can cause staggers in livestock if they graze on it. Obviously, you don't want cattle & sheep grazing on your cover crops, but I couldn't guarantee that it would never happen. As the farm we shoot over has livestock, it was a non starter for us.

Ah well; that's a big no no then. Good to know. Thanks.