very few duck in New Zealand

[Salopian]

Zapp,

it is all very well ridiculing the said gentlemans experiment, and yes it may be seen to be rustic and inhumane, but at least he tried to find out for himself.How do we know what goes on behind closed doors in laboratory's? Everyone seems to conveniently forget the horrors that the early soft iron shot loaded cartridges used to cause, now all we hear is how brilliant the Super Steel are and how brilliant the American inspired loads that do not conform with CIP regulations and Proof house advice.It is sad but true that many people cannot afford to buy a shotgun proofed for Supersteel when they have perfectly adequate SxS guns that they always used to shoot.

Once again Teal tells us he has seen Ducks dead and dying from the terrible effects of Lead shot poisoning. Why have the River Bailiffs and Water Bailiffs not seen the same horrors, why haven't the RSPB rammed photographic evidence down our throats?

In 1984 a clayshoot in Victor Harbour South Australia was closed because spent lead shot was thought to be poisoning the water course to a local stream and fishery. After great expense and considerable time the closure was overturned as the source of the lead pollution was found to be natural lead deposits in the soil in the hills above the shooting ground.

Why do we still have Lead flashing on Roofs and churches? Why do we have roofs clad in Lead flashing depositing rain water into ornamental ponds and lakes that support large numbers of waterfowl?

Why do we not have high incidences of illness and mental health problems in communities in England & Wales where Lead mining has been going on for centuries?

[gunsmoke]

I have attached my steel v lead results.

 

Steel shot gives you blown patterns and less penetration.

Edited March 18, 2014 by gunsmoke

[Big Mat]

Penetration through a yellow pages? You've got to be having a laugh.

 

Steel kills, modern steel cartridges are very good and kill well. Whatever nonsense you keep spouting is just detrimental to shooting and quite frankly we don't need people like you.

[strangford wildfowler]

Penetration through a yellow pages? You've got to be having a laugh.

 

Steel kills, modern steel cartridges are very good and kill well. Whatever nonsense you keep spouting is just detrimental to shooting and quite frankly we don't need people like you.

Ive heard that you have to get used to shooting steel to be a good shot with it.

Is this true or complete and udder bs

[Big Mat]

Ive heard that you have to get used to shooting steel to be a good shot with it.

Is this true or complete and udder bs

 

Its down to confidence, it shoots different to lead. I've got some duck homeloads here to use on pigeons before the season starts to keep my eye in

[strangford wildfowler]

Its down to confidence, it shoots different to lead. I've got some duck homeloads here to use on pigeons before the season starts to keep my eye in

So what your saying is know your personal limits with it and where you can place it I.e head or neck and practice using it?

[motty]

I have attached my steel v lead results.

 

Steel shot gives you blown patterns and less penetration.

Blown patterns? What are you talking about? Less penetration? Not necessarily.

I killed plenty of geese last season that were at good range - some well over 50 yards. Steel does work and I don't know what you've got to gain from trying to say it doesn't.

[motty]

Zapp,

it is all very well ridiculing the said gentlemans experiment, and yes it may be seen to be rustic and inhumane, but at least he tried to find out for himself.How do we know what goes on behind closed doors in laboratory's? Everyone seems to conveniently forget the horrors that the early soft iron shot loaded cartridges used to cause, now all we hear is how brilliant the Super Steel are and how brilliant the American inspired loads that do not conform with CIP regulations and Proof house advice.It is sad but true that many people cannot afford to buy a shotgun proofed for Supersteel when they have perfectly adequate SxS guns that they always used to shoot.

Once again Teal tells us he has seen Ducks dead and dying from the terrible effects of Lead shot poisoning. Why have the River Bailiffs and Water Bailiffs not seen the same horrors, why haven't the RSPB rammed photographic evidence down our throats?

In 1984 a clayshoot in Victor Harbour South Australia was closed because spent lead shot was thought to be poisoning the water course to a local stream and fishery. After great expense and considerable time the closure was overturned as the source of the lead pollution was found to be natural lead deposits in the soil in the hills above the shooting ground.

Why do we still have Lead flashing on Roofs and churches? Why do we have roofs clad in Lead flashing depositing rain water into ornamental ponds and lakes that support large numbers of waterfowl?

Why do we not have high incidences of illness and mental health problems in communities in England & Wales where Lead mining has been going on for centuries?

I would assume that most people who are serious about shooting wildfowl would be able to afford the correct gun if they really wanted to. Any fairly modern 3" magnum gun in good condition would be suitable for steel shot in my opinion, I've shot plenty of steel through two of my guns that aren't steel proofed.

Failing that -though i'm no fan - Hatsan semi autos are cheap enough.

[Big Mat]

So what your saying is know your personal limits with it and where you can place it I.e head or neck and practice using it?

 

Exactly, i've let alot of birds go which i've not been happy with my ability to hit, but other who i shoot with would have taken the birds. 2 3/4" steel cartridges are cheap enough to get a couple of boxes to use on pigeons for practice.

[poontang]

I would assume that most people who are serious about shooting wildfowl would be able to afford the correct gun if they really wanted to.

 

'Aint that the truth.

 

Shooting is a very diverse sport, with plenty of different opportunities.

 

As it stands at the moment it's only those shooting wildfowl who HAVE to use non toxic shot, so if you want to shoot 'fowl get the correct gun!! It's a no brainer really.

If you get a gun designed for the job in hand all this debate about steel becomes a bit of an irrelevance really. Big shot, thrown fast WILL kill. Plenty of guns that will handle the stuff...buy one, job done.

[strangford wildfowler]

Exactly, i've let alot of birds go which i've not been happy with my ability to hit, but other who i shoot with would have taken the birds. 2 3/4" steel cartridges are cheap enough to get a couple of boxes to use on pigeons for practice.

 

Yeah thats what I thought you meant just wasnt sure.

Cheers sw

[gunsmoke]

I tried to add me test charts to the post but it did not copy over right.

 

For those of you are interested I have added the charts to my blog link below. You can also find it on 'save our lead shot' facebook group.

 

http://ianthegun.blogspot.co.uk/

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/386424074747289/

[gunsmoke]

 

Exactly, i've let alot of birds go which i've not been happy with my ability to hit, but other who i shoot with would have taken the birds. 2 3/4" steel cartridges are cheap enough to get a couple of boxes to use on pigeons for practice.

 

I am not allowed to use steel on my ground, the woodland is managed and they do not want steel shot used and the farmer does not want plastic wads on his fields.

[Big Mat]

 

I am not allowed to use steel on my ground, the woodland is managed and they do not want steel shot used and the farmer does not want plastic wads on his fields.

 

Then find somewhere else to shoot. Or use steel with a fibre shot cup.

 

As for your testing with the yellow pages? Its not the 1970s and you are not trying to find the power of a rusty Relum Telly, do some proper testing and then come back to us.

[wymberley]

 

I am not allowed to use steel on my ground, the woodland is managed and they do not want steel shot used and the farmer does not want plastic wads on his fields.

On this ground, what are you shooting as it does kind of make a difference?

 

 

Then find somewhere else to shoot. Or use steel with a fibre shot cup.

 

 

The logic behind if you want to shoot wildfowl, then get a gun to suit is inescapable but what if you don't.

 

If we're not careful, this is going to end up just like the hunting with dogs scenario whereby to an extent the huntsmen lost the support of shooters because of their continual (and often exaggerated) claims regarding wounding by the shooters.

 

Yes, modern steel does the business but it is not the be all and end all for all applications. Should it be continually praised to the hilt which it is increasingly appearing so to be, then eventually some bright spark is going to decide that there is no further requirement for lead shot. It seems to me that unless the praise for steel is not tempered in the next breath with a firm defence for lead where appropriate and which is deafening in its absence at the moment, we're going to end up in two separate antagonistic camps.

 

This is commonly referred to as, 'divide and conquer'. In other words, we're slaughtered yet again! And whose fault will it be? Yep, that's right!

[Penelope]

Agree wholeheartedly Wymberly.

 

On this ground, what are you shooting as it does kind of make a difference?

 

The logic behind if you want to shoot wildfowl, then get a gun to suit is inescapable but what if you don't.

 

If we're not careful, this is going to end up just like the hunting with dogs scenario whereby to an extent the huntsmen lost the support of shooters because of their continual (and often exaggerated) claims regarding wounding by the shooters.

 

Yes, modern steel does the business but it is not the be all and end all for all applications. Should it be continually praised to the hilt which it is increasingly appearing so to be, then eventually some bright spark is going to decide that there is no further requirement for lead shot. It seems to me that unless the praise for steel is not tempered in the next breath with a firm defence for lead where appropriate and which is deafening in its absence at the moment, we're going to end up in two separate antagonistic camps.

 

This is commonly referred to as, 'divide and conquer'. In other words, we're slaughtered yet again! And whose fault will it be? Yep, that's right!

[mudpatten]

Some real common sense from Wymberly.

 

You`re absolutely correct about us getting slaughtered again if we are`nt careful.

 

Please, please, try to impress this upon Gunsmoke. His warped arguments and meaningless,amateur experiments are damaging in the extreme.

 

I`ve tried to get him to see reason but he just won`t listen. I hope you are more successful with him than I`ve been.

[Teal]

Once again Teal tells us he has seen Ducks dead and dying from the terrible effects of Lead shot poisoning. Why have the River Bailiffs and Water Bailiffs not seen the same horrors, why haven't the RSPB rammed photographic evidence down our throats?

 

When was the last time you saw dead birds of any sort in the countryside - not very often, they get cleared up by predators and scavengers quickly unless in the case of a mass kill. It is only where they are high density you notice patterns and numbers of dead birds, in this case it was a significant number of ducks released on a protected (from predators) pond.

 

Birds sometimes get pricked when shooting, by your metric River Baliffs and Water Baliffs would be regularly reporting these too- but they aren't, they don't and the reasons are as above. It's not many water baliffs that are going to do a post mortem even if they did find a dead duck. The fact is lead is poisonous, and it does kill ducks when they ingest it. You can choose not to believe that if you want but you are wrong, and I can state this with complete confidence as I have seen it in the example I gave above.

 

Now - what you may wish to argue is how many ducks it affects and how many ducks it kills. Which to be honest would be a much more logical point to make then to try and deny that ducks are killed by lead. I doubt anyone would be able to accurately give a number, and I am certainly not going to try and I do not know, but these are the reasons why lead is banned, and that is why it isn't coming back for wildfowl shooting, and is likely to disappear altogether in the not too distant future.

[wymberley]

Some real common sense from Wymberly.

 

You`re absolutely correct about us getting slaughtered again if we are`nt careful.

 

Please, please, try to impress this upon Gunsmoke. His warped arguments and meaningless,amateur experiments are damaging in the extreme.

 

I`ve tried to get him to see reason but he just won`t listen. I hope you are more successful with him than I`ve been.

Have you seen the state of the vehicle Burrard used to obtain his figures on shot string? My father used to use telephone directories to compare the penetration of his homeloads with that of factory produced rounds once the Proof House had OK'd the pressures. If properly mounted the results were remarkably consistent.

 

There is a saying originated by one of the most wealthy but cut-throat - one bad one and you've had it - professions in the world which no one has ever contradicted in over 100 years so there must be at least an element of truth in it - 'bad publicity is better than no publicity'.

 

Poor old gunsmoke reminds me of the Norfolk swan man of the '80s. A PR professional felt sorry for him in the end and handled his publicity. It wasn't too long before the guy got everything that he'd been raving about sorted. No one will be surprised to hear that that also involved lead - this time it was fishing weights.

 

Banned, of course!

[anser2]

Gunsmoke - I can only think modern steel cartridges have not yet reached New Zealand if Gunsmokes claims on wounding have any truth in them. I do not know what shells are available to you but try Gamebore 3 inch no 3 or Remmington Nitro steel\ Sportsman no2s in a tight . 700 after choke and you will find steel will kill just as well as lead. However steel takes a little getting used to , quality steel shells are faster and the pattern tighter than lead. Steel is not lead , shoot it like lead and you will not get the best out of it. As for the comments of steel shells blowing their pattern Gunsmoke must be loading his own pretty poor shells as that’s not a problem with factory loads. Indeed given the same loads and chokes steel patterns better than lead. Unless using shells given to me by the farmers I pigeon shoot for I now use steel for most of my pigeon and game as well as wildfowl. One problem I have found using steel has been that turning back to lead I have problems hitting birds with the lead. It’s so slow compared with steel.

 

A duck uses pellets to grind up food in its gizzard and BB shot is rather large for that. Most of the pellets that have been found in the gizzards of mallard have been no 5 or smaller.

 

The steel\ lead tests in the link are not very well done. Nothing wrong with using penertration through paper pages as a very rough guide , but you do not state if all the cartridges are of the same load . If your Gamebore is the same loads as here in the UK then they are not as all Eley Alphamax are 36gr loads while the gamebore steel is a 32 gr load

The two are not comparable. Also it does not give the range for the first table.

 

Also its reconised to get a similar performance to lead you need to go up 2 or 3 shot sizes in steel. I also find it strange that the Facebook winger Ian Summerwell seems to be a one band poster with only one comment from others. Some of his data is way out of date like the quote about wounding rate from 1982. The steel shells of today are far in advanced from the loads of over 20 years ago. He talks about 2.5 inch chambered guns being 50% of his busness. In England such guns make up a small % of the market , indeed it is not easy to find 2.5 inch shells in my area. Almost all new game guns are chambered for 2 3\4 inch shells and if you want to seriously shoot wildfowl most wildfowlers use a 3 or 3.5 inch chambered gun.

 

I am sorry gunsmoke but almost every thing you have said about steel is not the experience regular modern steel load users find in England. I can only think that you are shooting beyond normal ranges ( 40-45 yards + ) or the shells you used are very poor quality. Get your gun shop to stock some good steel shells and you will wonder what all the fuss has been about.

 

Teal – the decline in UK mallard is mainly in wintering birds no longer coming over in winter than problems with home bred birds which are increasing ( look at BTO survey results ).

 

Salopian- I am sure we have had the argument about lead in water before and again I will give the same answer. Lead is not soluble in water thus is not a problem in water pipes. It only becomes a problem when the lead is ground up and ions are released into the blood stream.

 

The argument about finding dead ducks does not stack up unless large numbers die. Dead birds are hard to find. We have millions of song birds in our gardens , they all die sooner or later , but how many do you ever find. A hand full perhaps , but only a fraction of what must die. After a pheasant shoot a number of pheasants are wounded , but how many would find without the aid of a dog , very, very few I suspect. Many are tucked away in cover other eaten by scavengers. In Demark one biologist hid 100 dead duck around a marsh and came back the next week and found very few of them. Crows , fox, and rats had cleared most of them up. Having said that there are a number of lead poisoning deaths recorded. There was a heavy kill of greylag a few years ago after a loch was drained and the geese could get at lead pellets that had been too deep for them to reach. There have also been whooper swan deaths in the Yutan estuary , Scotland . I have found a few tufted duck and pochard that after autopsy were found to have died from lead poisoning and caught quite a few , still alive but very weak also suffering from lead poisoning. The autopsy was done by a vet in the animal hospital in Cambridge. So just because your water bailiffs have not reported corpses does not mean there has not been any lead poisoning.

 

I use over a thousand steel shells a year in three guns , a 3.5 s\a , 3 inch s\s and 2 3\4 inch s\s game gun all with the correct chokes , my wounding rates are low , similar to lead back in the old days , I have had no problems with the guns or recoil and am very happy using steel.

Edited March 19, 2014 by anser2

[wymberley]

To be fair, gunsmoke is a gunsmith. The guns that he 'sees' will be because they require the attention of a 'smith as they're broken/worn and consequently probably of an age. I find it strange that 2.5" cartridges are hard to find and particularly so in Norfolk. Nowadays though, they are, of course, more commonly known as 67 or 67.5mm. I don't understand why the manufacturers bother loading them though if there's hardly any 2.5" chambers to stuff them in.

[Penelope]

I found this interesting.

 

'A long one but a good watch'.

 

I hope MPK doesn't mind me posting this as is pertinent to this thread.

 

 

http://www.mpkcustomcallsandwoodwork.com/#!useful-links-and-videos/c8x4

[mpk]

I found this interesting.

 

'A long one but a good watch'.

 

I hope MPK doesn't mind me posting this as is pertinent to this thread.

 

 

http://www.mpkcustomcallsandwoodwork.com/#!useful-links-and-videos/c8x4

 

Not a problem at all, I have been using steel successfully for years now. Never had issues with "blown" patterns and like any Wildfowler does I pattern my loads to make sure they are effective. I use a £395 steel proofed hatsan pump so really the guns are so cheap now that this is not an issue.

 

I've said it before and will say it again !! Steel works and it works very well. As long as you are sensible with your shot sizes and the ranges your shooting at (as you would with lead too) it is extremely affective.

 

Shame to see, yet again someone trying to fight an argument about non toxic shot, rubbishing a very decent alternative !

 

Doesn't make sense at all !!!

[gunsmoke]

I know this article was written back in 1995 put it was at a time when they where using lead shot. Who must steel shot do ducks ingest now and is it toxic to them?

 

Taken from “Le Chasseur Francais” Feb.1995 by Eric Joly

 

Much ado about Nothing.

 

Are hunters*1 partly responsible for the destruction of the bird population? Is their lead shot poisoning the environment?

 

One is aware that these questions are of great concern to the public and to the European Authorities with regard to the protection of the environment. In Brussels there is anxiety about damage caused by lead poisoning. The old hutliers*2 have well pointed out that on some ponds, full of lead shot, their call birds come to no harm.

 

A scientific study is needed to evaluate this situation. Remember that lead poisoning is caused by the ingestion of lead shot, due to ducks swallowing shot mixed with gravel they eat which is used to crush the food contained in their gizzards. So an enquiry is under way. It is being conducted under the aegis of the National Office for Hunting (ONC), with the collaboration of the Union of Federations of Hunters, the National Association of Wildfowlers, and the National Group for the Protection of Shooting-hunting and sporting*3, and the first results are very encouraging. The research procedure consists of two parts.

 

The first is to evaluate the toxicity of different concentrations of lead shot in certain body tissues; it is not only by the ingestion of lead shot that ducks can become affected. The second consists of analysing the gizzards of fowl to find what proportion of birds is affected. It is the results of the second part that we are considering here. 2,334 gizzards coming from 37 Departments have been gathered by 32 Departmental Federations of hunters, representing 39% of the Departments. The wildfowling associations have participated in this study, the costal Departments having supplied 60% of the gizzards collected.

 

Initially the investigation was limited to four species of surface feeding ducks: mallard, shoveller, pintail, teal, and two species of diving ducks, pochard and tufted. But during the course of the study the analysis has been extended to wigeon, godwall, garganey and golden-eye. The first result is that there is truly nothing to be alarmed about. The heaviest rate of ingestion was by pochard, 13.9% of the birds examined having absorbed at least one lead shot. Next are gadwall 13.4%, mallard 8.5%, tufted 7.3%, pintail 5.2%, shoveller 4.6%, teal 3.2%. In the cases of garganey and golden-eye only two birds have been examined and both carried shot.

 

The Camargue and Lake Grandlieu.

 

The results, already satisfying, frankly become comforting when one studies the number of shot contained in gizzards. It appears in effect that 84.8% of affected gizzards contain……only one shot! Large ingestions have only been found in one teal (17 shots) one pintail (11 shots) one mallard (10 shots). The Camargue and Lake Grandlieu are the most heavily exposed sites. Note that at the latter site, shooting areas are limited to the feeding areas, which partly explains the high level of lead ingested there. 2-3 pellets average for affected mallard and 3 pellets in affected pochard. On average, taking all species into consideration, the rate of ingestion is only 6.6%. This is very few. We now need to discover how many shot pellets need to be ingested by a duck to make it ill. It does not follow that because a duck has ingested lead shot that it will die of lead poisoning. We are ignoring so far the results of the first investigation, but some aspects seem encouraging. The experts at the ONC are confident enough – “Ingestion (they write in ONC bulletin no. 192) does not necessarily mean poisoning will occur. Food rich in protein like that of pocard, and grit rich in calcium, significantly reduce the risks of lead poisoning.” Will these results, allied to those of the first investigation, slow down the spawning of new restrictive measures in the offices of European civil servants? The next step!

 

Let us not forget that lead shot has been banned for 12 years on wet lands in the USA, also in Denmark and Holland, and that its ban is being considered at the moment in G.B. However, lead poisoning kills infinitely less birds that does the drainage of wetlands, concerning which no one seems to have bothered*4. If good sense prevails, this business of banning lead shot will be given up. On the condition, ofcourse, that decisions are taken on the sole foundation of the scientific evidence the ONC is going to present to us.

 

NB

 

*1 Field sportsmen are called hunters in most of the rest of the world.

 

*2 Hutliers are wildfowlers who shoot from permanent hides at the waters edge

which are constructed like small navel costal barrages with gun ports. They

contain bunks and stoves etc. for a relatively long stay. They use a mixture of decoys and live call birds.

 

*3 Sporting shooting would include clay-pigeon shooting

 

*4 This May’s issue of L.C.F. announces that a program of action to protect

wetlands was adopted on 22 March.

 

Also an update on the report. 6% of ducks examined have ingested shot, 70% of these possessed one shot only. The investigation is continuing. L.C.F. May 1995.

 

 

[motty]

I know this article was written back in 1995 put it was at a time when they where using lead shot. Who must steel shot do ducks ingest now and is it toxic to them?

 

Taken from “Le Chasseur Francais” Feb.1995 by Eric Joly

 

Much ado about Nothing.

 

Are hunters*1 partly responsible for the destruction of the bird population? Is their lead shot poisoning the environment?

 

One is aware that these questions are of great concern to the public and to the European Authorities with regard to the protection of the environment. In Brussels there is anxiety about damage caused by lead poisoning. The old hutliers*2 have well pointed out that on some ponds, full of lead shot, their call birds come to no harm.

 

A scientific study is needed to evaluate this situation. Remember that lead poisoning is caused by the ingestion of lead shot, due to ducks swallowing shot mixed with gravel they eat which is used to crush the food contained in their gizzards. So an enquiry is under way. It is being conducted under the aegis of the National Office for Hunting (ONC), with the collaboration of the Union of Federations of Hunters, the National Association of Wildfowlers, and the National Group for the Protection of Shooting-hunting and sporting*3, and the first results are very encouraging. The research procedure consists of two parts.

 

The first is to evaluate the toxicity of different concentrations of lead shot in certain body tissues; it is not only by the ingestion of lead shot that ducks can become affected. The second consists of analysing the gizzards of fowl to find what proportion of birds is affected. It is the results of the second part that we are considering here. 2,334 gizzards coming from 37 Departments have been gathered by 32 Departmental Federations of hunters, representing 39% of the Departments. The wildfowling associations have participated in this study, the costal Departments having supplied 60% of the gizzards collected.

 

Initially the investigation was limited to four species of surface feeding ducks: mallard, shoveller, pintail, teal, and two species of diving ducks, pochard and tufted. But during the course of the study the analysis has been extended to wigeon, godwall, garganey and golden-eye. The first result is that there is truly nothing to be alarmed about. The heaviest rate of ingestion was by pochard, 13.9% of the birds examined having absorbed at least one lead shot. Next are gadwall 13.4%, mallard 8.5%, tufted 7.3%, pintail 5.2%, shoveller 4.6%, teal 3.2%. In the cases of garganey and golden-eye only two birds have been examined and both carried shot.

 

The Camargue and Lake Grandlieu.

 

The results, already satisfying, frankly become comforting when one studies the number of shot contained in gizzards. It appears in effect that 84.8% of affected gizzards contain……only one shot! Large ingestions have only been found in one teal (17 shots) one pintail (11 shots) one mallard (10 shots). The Camargue and Lake Grandlieu are the most heavily exposed sites. Note that at the latter site, shooting areas are limited to the feeding areas, which partly explains the high level of lead ingested there. 2-3 pellets average for affected mallard and 3 pellets in affected pochard. On average, taking all species into consideration, the rate of ingestion is only 6.6%. This is very few. We now need to discover how many shot pellets need to be ingested by a duck to make it ill. It does not follow that because a duck has ingested lead shot that it will die of lead poisoning. We are ignoring so far the results of the first investigation, but some aspects seem encouraging. The experts at the ONC are confident enough – “Ingestion (they write in ONC bulletin no. 192) does not necessarily mean poisoning will occur. Food rich in protein like that of pocard, and grit rich in calcium, significantly reduce the risks of lead poisoning.” Will these results, allied to those of the first investigation, slow down the spawning of new restrictive measures in the offices of European civil servants? The next step!

 

Let us not forget that lead shot has been banned for 12 years on wet lands in the USA, also in Denmark and Holland, and that its ban is being considered at the moment in G.B. However, lead poisoning kills infinitely less birds that does the drainage of wetlands, concerning which no one seems to have bothered*4. If good sense prevails, this business of banning lead shot will be given up. On the condition, ofcourse, that decisions are taken on the sole foundation of the scientific evidence the ONC is going to present to us.

 

NB

 

*1 Field sportsmen are called hunters in most of the rest of the world.

 

*2 Hutliers are wildfowlers who shoot from permanent hides at the waters edge

which are constructed like small navel costal barrages with gun ports. They

contain bunks and stoves etc. for a relatively long stay. They use a mixture of decoys and live call birds.

 

*3 Sporting shooting would include clay-pigeon shooting

 

*4 This May’s issue of L.C.F. announces that a program of action to protect

wetlands was adopted on 22 March.

 

Also an update on the report. 6% of ducks examined have ingested shot, 70% of these possessed one shot only. The investigation is continuing. L.C.F. May 1995.

 

 

Is this relevant to this topic titled 'very few duck in New Zealand'?