pigeons on beans

[fengreg]

Sorry it was richg not Kitchrat

[Penelope]

47 pigeons and 5 crow for 138 squibs yesterday. 2.65 cartridges per bird. 5 R&L's, and a few easy birds missed. 9 for 9 to start with including two R&L's.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Penelope

[richg]

Come on boys and girls, where's your sense of humour, it was only APRIL 1ST. Calm down.

 

By the way i went back to the farm i shot last Tuesday, Shot another 170. thats 363 in two visits.

 

I accept that we are all of differing abilities and levels of experience and there is a lot more too it than just being able to shoot.

My five key elements are

1. Be in the right place (watch flight lines)

2. The right decoy pattern, (If birds dont' commit, change it)

3. Be well concealed (That first bird should never see you)

4. Hide discipline (Look through the hide and don't move until ready to shoot)

5. Move, mount, shoot, in one smooth movement, (Don't leap up like a jack in a box)

Of the 170 shot yesterday most were singles with about 20 doubles and two trebles (Remi auto) but almost without exception that first bird shot did not ever see me stand up to shoot it, but equally quite a few were shot as passers out to 50 or even 60 yards consistently.

And if anyones interested 216 cartridges were fired. you do the maths.

Edited April 3, 2014 by richg

[kitchrat]

Come on boys and girls, where's your sense of humour, it was only APRIL 1ST. Calm down.

 

By the way i went back to the farm i shot last Tuesday, Shot another 170. thats 363 in two visits.

 

I accept that we are all of differing abilities and levels of experience and there is a lot more too it than just being able to shoot.

My five key elements are

1. Be in the right place (watch flight lines)

2. The right decoy pattern, (If birds dont' commit, change it)

3. Be well concealed (That first bird should never see you)

4. Hide discipline (Look through the hide and don't move until ready to shoot)

5. Move, mount, shoot, in one smooth movement, (Don't leap up like a jack in a box)

Of the 170 shot yesterday most were singles with about 20 doubles and two trebles (Remi auto) but almost without exception that first bird shot did not ever see me stand up to shoot it, but equally quite a few were shot as passers out to 50 or even 60 yards consistently.

And if anyones interested 216 cartridges were fired. you do the maths.

Wow, brilliant!!

[marsh man]

Sorry Richg..........you certainly fooled me, it must have been a senior moment I had, mind you I get quite a few of them nowadays. Looking at your bags and avarages there is very little I can advise you on, except next year can you pre warn me to lower my stress levels..........

[Dbw1shrops]

Any pics rich.g ?

[cocknee]

Come on boys and girls, where's your sense of humour, it was only APRIL 1ST. Calm down.

 

By the way i went back to the farm i shot last Tuesday, Shot another 170. thats 363 in two visits.

 

I accept that we are all of differing abilities and levels of experience and there is a lot more too it than just being able to shoot.

My five key elements are

1. Be in the right place (watch flight lines)

2. The right decoy pattern, (If birds dont' commit, change it)

3. Be well concealed (That first bird should never see you)

4. Hide discipline (Look through the hide and don't move until ready to shoot)

5. Move, mount, shoot, in one smooth movement, (Don't leap up like a jack in a box)

Of the 170 shot yesterday most were singles with about 20 doubles and two trebles (Remi auto) but almost without exception that first bird shot did not ever see me stand up to shoot it, but equally quite a few were shot as passers out to 50 or even 60 yards consistently.

And if anyones interested 216 cartridges were fired. you do the maths.

Blimey I think the farmer may need a new drill I certainly wouldn't get that many feeding on fresh drilling around here there is so little left on top these days it only takes a couple of days to clear a field then the pigeons move on to pastures new.

[fengreg]

Not quite as good as square eggs, but I believed that too!

Good shooting by the way.

Decoy patterns, now there's a thing, on Tuesday I was watching a crowd of pigeons feeding on drill, they were quite tightly packed together, roughly in a tear drop formation, fat end into the wind, leap frogging each other to the front much as Rooks do, tried it yesterday, 18 decoys in a tear drop, say 20 yards long by 10 wide, thirty yards out, wind blowing right to left two floaters at 25 yards down wind from the tail, hide in line with the tail end, worked well.

[fenboy]

It was no april fools as is proven by the next post , again singing his own virtues and pointing out where the rest of us go wrong .

Perhaps his tin hat was not thick enough.

 

I also shot 171 for a 172 shots last week ( one needed a second barrel ) sorry no pic I left the camera at home

[la bala]

It was no april fools as is proven by the next post , again singing his own virtues and pointing out where the rest of us go wrong .

Perhaps his tin hat was not thick enough.

 

I also shot 171 for a 172 shots last week ( one needed a second barrel ) sorry no pic I left the camera at home

You had another bad day fenboy

[Guest stevo]

It was no april fools as is proven by the next post , again singing his own virtues and pointing out where the rest of us go wrong .

Perhaps his tin hat was not thick enough.

 

I also shot 171 for a 172 shots last week ( one needed a second barrel ) sorry no pic I left the camera at home

+1

[richg]

It was no april fools as is proven by the next post , again singing his own virtues and pointing out where the rest of us go wrong .

Perhaps his tin hat was not thick enough.

 

I also shot 171 for a 172 shots last week ( one needed a second barrel ) sorry no pic I left the camera at home

Clearly you doubt my honesty, but hey i can live with that, the reason i put my 5 key elements is to try and help those out there with a bit less experience put a few more birds in the bag. If all five elements come together you will shoot more birds, drop down to four or three or two and your chances of a decent bag is reduced. As regards going back to the same fields a week later and shooting another good bag i agree it is very rare, but the beans were drilled along a hillside on heavy land and they had not gone in well. I did not expect a second chance but went for a look anyway only to find every tree full of birds and maybe 500 still working the ground, clearly a last chance was on and i took it. I did take my camera on the first trip and will try to upload a picture. As regards singing my own praises i was told many years ago "if you don't blow your own trumpet, no one will blow it for you" But briefly i have shot tens of thousands of pigeons over forty years, i have also shot for England at clays, winning many titles along the way, and despite now being the wrong side of sixty i still think i can shoot a bit, All these things put together is called experience and if i can share a bit of that and help others on this forum i do it for free. You accuse me of telling you where you go wrong, all i can say is if the cap fits wear it, if not ignore it.

Edited April 4, 2014 by richg

[richg]

This is driving me mad, cant seem to upload pictures. I select a picture and it says upload, it goes through the motions then says it cant find it, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Help

[fenboy]

Clearly you doubt my honesty, but hey i can live with that, the reason i put my 5 key elements is to try and help those out there with a bit less experience put a few more birds in the bag. If all five elements come together you will shoot more birds, drop down to four or three or two and your chances of a decent bag is reduced. As regards going back to the same fields a week later and shooting another good bag i agree it is very rare, but the beans were drilled along a hillside on heavy land and they had not gone in well. I did not expect a second chance but went for a look anyway only to find every tree full of birds and maybe 500 still working the ground, clearly a last chance was on and i took it. I did take my camera on the first trip and will try to upload a picture. As regards singing my own praises i was told many years ago "if you don't blow your own trumpet, no one will blow it for you" But briefly i have shot tens of thousands of pigeons over forty years, i have also shot for England at clays, winning many titles along the way, and despite now being the wrong side of sixty i still think i can shoot a bit, All these things put together is called experience and if i can share a bit of that and help others on this forum i do it for free. You accuse me of telling you where you go wrong, all i can say is if the cap fits wear it, if not ignore it.

 

I do not doubt your honesty at all , and i agree completely with the key elements that you speak of .

 

Now my average on pigeon is pretty good as a rule but I have never felt the need to preach to others how well they should be shooting other tan perhaps the odd have you got lead in your cartridges type of joking comment.

 

My best mate usually shoots at a average of around 13-1 , the few times he comes out with me each year he enjoys himself tremendously despite hitting very little.

Clearly you are a talented shot having shot for your country , but have you not heard of the saying do not judge others by your own standards ?

 

The fact is your first post sounded like a teacher telling off a naughty pupil and was made on a few assumptions , you then try to pretend its a April fool !

You no doubt have plenty of good advice to offer but perhaps you need to think on how you go about it.

[dougall]

you must build 1 hell of a hide to fit your head in it....

[matone]

you must build 1 hell of a hide to fit your head in it....

LOL !

[ayano3]

Does it really matter how many you shoot or how many shots you take? Just get out in the fresh air and enjoy it while you can. There is many people who would love to have the opportunity to sit and miss all day. Some days I shoot better than others but don't care and don't want to know why,surely it's the not knowing that make its the sport what it is ??

[Guest stevo]

Does it really matter how many you shoot or how many shots you take? Just get out in the fresh air and enjoy it while you can. There is many people who would love to have the opportunity to sit and miss all day. Some days I shoot better than others but don't care and don't want to know why,surely it's the not knowing that make its the sport what it is ??

 

Hear , hear ! Well said that man

[cocknee]

I too have been shooting pigeons for over 40 years to a pretty reasonable standard and have shot with many brilliant shots one of whom is a multi world champion and although I am nowhere his standard he wouldn't dream of saying "31 birds for 75 shots is just not good enough."

[richg]

This is my last word on the matter as my intention is misconstrued. I thought this was a pigeon "SHOOTING" forum not a "DAY OUT IN THE COUNTRY" forum. If i were to tell my farmers that i dont really come to KILL pigeons but just to have a day out in the fresh air and bang some squibs off i would very quickly be out on my ear. My sole intention was to help the less experienced out there put more birds in the bag. Too many shooters put there lack of success down to weather, bad luck ect ect but with just a bit of help can do better and still enjoy the experience. I too love to be out in the fresh air enjoying everything that the countryside has to offer but i am also expected to KILL PIGEONS and i do that to the best of my ability, drawing on every ounce of my experience gained over forty years of decoying. To shoot consistent bags the five key elements must be employed in there entirety, when i get it right i KILL LOTS OF PIGEONS. If i fail to implement any of the five i dont SIMPLE.

So in summing up. If your happy in what you do, fine. but if you want to put just a few more birds in the bag each time you go out, dont be afraid to ask for advice. Some of the best sportsmen in the world resort to a coach to help them realise there dreams. Andy Murray, Nick Faldow, Ronnie O'sulivan the list goes on. THE END OF THIS SAGA.

[kitchrat]

This is my last word on the matter as my intention is misconstrued. I thought this was a pigeon "SHOOTING" forum not a "DAY OUT IN THE COUNTRY" forum. If i were to tell my farmers that i dont really come to KILL pigeons but just to have a day out in the fresh air and bang some squibs off i would very quickly be out on my ear. My sole intention was to help the less experienced out there put more birds in the bag. Too many shooters put there lack of success down to weather, bad luck ect ect but with just a bit of help can do better and still enjoy the experience. I too love to be out in the fresh air enjoying everything that the countryside has to offer but i am also expected to KILL PIGEONS and i do that to the best of my ability, drawing on every ounce of my experience gained over forty years of decoying. To shoot consistent bags the five key elements must be employed in there entirety, when i get it right i KILL LOTS OF PIGEONS. If i fail to implement any of the five i dont SIMPLE.

So in summing up. If your happy in what you do, fine. but if you want to put just a few more birds in the bag each time you go out, dont be afraid to ask for advice. Some of the best sportsmen in the world resort to a coach to help them realise there dreams. Andy Murray, Nick Faldow, Ronnie O'sulivan the list goes on. THE END OF THIS SAGA.

Fully agree, but what are the 5 elements again??

[fletch2]

While I think RichG didn't come across as well as he could have, I tend to agree to a certain extent. While 75 shots to kill 31 pigeons isn't shocking, i'm surprised about the ratios for cartridges to kills that some people are happy with. I recently read (on this forum) that someone thought 1 pigeon for 4 shots was about average! I truly hope there are not many pigeon shooters that regularly shoot that badly.

I'm one of them

Edited April 7, 2014 by fletch2

[richg]

I have listed the five key elements on post 28, but i could easily write a page on each one. We frequently just don't pay enough attention to the detail. I shot pigeons for a living in the 70s and the need to make the most of every opportunity and to make every shot count has never left me. Reconnaissance is so vital if you are to build a bag, it is not enough to see 5, 50, or a 100 birds on a field, without a consistent flight line coming to the field a big bag will not happen, this is the first key, be in the right place, ie. under a flight line. The second key is concealment, it is not always enough that the birds cannot see you in your hide, it must blend in with whatever you are backing onto, ie. it does not look too out of place. the third key is your decoy pattern, Different patterns work differently depending on the weather conditions or changing light. I sometimes change the pattern three or four times until i can see birds are committing with confidence into my "Shot Spot" this is generally slightly to the left or right of my hide depending on the wind, but not directly in front. (I'll explain why in a minute) The third key is what i call hide discipline, always always look through the hide never over it (make windows or use a stealth net) the second you have fired a shot SIT DOWN and reload ready for a follow up shot, frightened birds are looking for danger and if they cannot see you will sometimes give you an immediate follow up shot, when its sunny, shiny barrels and sunglasses are a flashing beacon to pigeons so keep both below the net. The fifth and final key really comes into play only if the first four are adhered to, TAKING THE SHOT. This is the culmination of all your efforts so far, your reconnaissance, your hide, your pattern and your hide discipline has brought you to the point where you will now be ready to shoot. When birds come in to your shot spot you must not stand up until you are ready to kill it, stand up two seconds too soon and the bird may see you and flare away, turning an 80% kill into a 40% kill in the blink of an eye. The reason my SHOT SPOT is to one side of the front of my hide is because i want the bird to have just passed the hide and be looking at the ground and the decoys, that way when i rise to shoot, it does not see me and is not taking any evasive action, i rise, mount shoot in one smooth action taking no more than about three seconds. As i have said before that first bird should never see you or hear the shot that kills it.

I know that there will be many of you out there who have shot many pigeons on many occasions without any or all of these elements in place, i have done so myself many times, but i try to put these five elements into place whenever i can as it works for me and helps to give me consistent bags. This is only a brief explanation of what is a hugely complex subject, but at the end of the day if you are satisfied with your achievements on any given day, that is fine. I love my shooting, i love being out in the fields, but i also strive to be as successful as i can be in my chosen pursuit, and at the end of the day that's birds in the bag, and that's what my farmers judge me on. Always remember if birds are not coming to you decoys its because something is wrong. How often have we seen birds pouring into the bird that towered and fell dead on the other side of the field, leaving you asking why. Well now you know.

[kitchrat]

I have listed the five key elements on post 28, but i could easily write a page on each one. We frequently just don't pay enough attention to the detail. I shot pigeons for a living in the 70s and the need to make the most of every opportunity and to make every shot count has never left me. Reconnaissance is so vital if you are to build a bag, it is not enough to see 5, 50, or a 100 birds on a field, without a consistent flight line coming to the field a big bag will not happen, this is the first key, be in the right place, ie. under a flight line. The second key is concealment, it is not always enough that the birds cannot see you in your hide, it must blend in with whatever you are backing onto, ie. it does not look too out of place. the third key is your decoy pattern, Different patterns work differently depending on the weather conditions or changing light. I sometimes change the pattern three or four times until i can see birds are committing with confidence into my "Shot Spot" this is generally slightly to the left or right of my hide depending on the wind, but not directly in front. (I'll explain why in a minute) The third key is what i call hide discipline, always always look through the hide never over it (make windows or use a stealth net) the second you have fired a shot SIT DOWN and reload ready for a follow up shot, frightened birds are looking for danger and if they cannot see you will sometimes give you an immediate follow up shot, when its sunny, shiny barrels and sunglasses are a flashing beacon to pigeons so keep both below the net. The fifth and final key really comes into play only if the first four are adhered to, TAKING THE SHOT. This is the culmination of all your efforts so far, your reconnaissance, your hide, your pattern and your hide discipline has brought you to the point where you will now be ready to shoot. When birds come in to your shot spot you must not stand up until you are ready to kill it, stand up two seconds too soon and the bird may see you and flare away, turning an 80% kill into a 40% kill in the blink of an eye. The reason my SHOT SPOT is to one side of the front of my hide is because i want the bird to have just passed the hide and be looking at the ground and the decoys, that way when i rise to shoot, it does not see me and is not taking any evasive action, i rise, mount shoot in one smooth action taking no more than about three seconds. As i have said before that first bird should never see you or hear the shot that kills it.

I know that there will be many of you out there who have shot many pigeons on many occasions without any or all of these elements in place, i have done so myself many times, but i try to put these five elements into place whenever i can as it works for me and helps to give me consistent bags. This is only a brief explanation of what is a hugely complex subject, but at the end of the day if you are satisfied with your achievements on any given day, that is fine. I love my shooting, i love being out in the fields, but i also strive to be as successful as i can be in my chosen pursuit, and at the end of the day that's birds in the bag, and that's what my farmers judge me on. Always remember if birds are not coming to you decoys its because something is wrong. How often have we seen birds pouring into the bird that towered and fell dead on the other side of the field, leaving you asking why. Well now you know.

That's brilliant, I hope all PW members read it. I'd never thought about your shot spot placing, makes sense to me.

[marsh man]

Thanks richg......I agree on every thing you put down in your well written post , even though I don't do every thing by the book . I have always tried to be as good as I can get in what ever I do weather its wild fowling or pigeon shooting, and I have being during both of them for neigh on 50yrs, but it do take time ......a lot of time, nowadays I prefer a half day of pigeon shooting to pass the time away rather than spend all day trying to shoot a large bag as I have no longer got the appetite and the strength to do it no more, so if most P W members followed your advice there is a good chance there bags will improve, at least they wont lose anything by trying...........cheers richg.