rcooke25552 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Looking for a bit of advice for the above air rifle. I have purchased one ex-demo for what I thought was a bargain price anyway, but the power seemed a bit low. I chronoed the rifle at full charge, and at every 10 shots after full charge, with different pellets and different weights and i am only getting 10.2 ft lbs out of it. is there a way to tune it, or higher this figure to around the 11.6 mark? thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't worry about it Look at chairgun. If you zero'd a 10.2ftlbs and an 11.6 ftlbs rifle at say 30 yards, the difference in drop on a .22 at 40 yards would be about 7.5mm and a 177 5mm. And its kind of irrelevant as you would learn the aim points with your rifle. In terms of terminal, rabbit despatching power for example, in both cases, the pellet will arrive with more than twice the energy required to do the job at 40 yards, which is generally considered an ethical maximum range for most. Up until recently, the rifle that claimed the most kills for me was an Air Arms s410. I chrono'd it one day for the hell of it and it was pushing out 10.ftlbs. Spring rifle tuners like Tony Wall, will drop the power on a springer to circa 10ftlbs. It tames the recoil/surge, making accuracy more easily attained, whilst still retaining more than enough killing power. I drop all my springers to 10ftlbs for this very reason. In a pcp, the extra advantage of a lower power is the saving of air, so more shots per fill, for no loss in performance. Not every day you get something for nothing Edited June 5, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Depends which pellets you were using. Might I recommend Crosman Premier Ultra Magnums? You will probably see 11.5 ft lb.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbower Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Power is not that important. My regulated S200, does 11.4, with AA Diablo, my S410 Carbine does 10.4. Same results. Its consistency that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Looking for a bit of advice for the above air rifle. I have purchased one ex-demo for what I thought was a bargain price anyway, but the power seemed a bit low. I chronoed the rifle at full charge, and at every 10 shots after full charge, with different pellets and different weights and i am only getting 10.2 ft lbs out of it. is there a way to tune it, or higher this figure to around the 11.6 mark? thanks in advance Can I just check something? When you say this, do you mean: you fill the gun up to full charge then chrono the first ten shots, fill the gun up to full charge, then rechrono the first ten shots etc... OR You fill the gun up to full charge, chronoed the first ten, then every tenth shot after that until empty? non regulated PCPs (like the AT44-10) have a power curve and are not always at their most efficient from full charge. Instead it will creep up to an optimum energy over a few shots. Chronoing the first ten only won't give you a true reflection of the power. If you did the second option, then this is all irrelevant, as you'd have shot through the power curve anyway. if you did the first option though, I'd recommend chronoing every shot from full to empty. you should see the power work its way up to a crest, then back down again as the pressure falls off. Then just fill your gun up to the point which gives you the most full power shots, not the biggest number of shots per charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkgoose Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I have the AT44 - 10 and it's shooting was shooting at 10.7ft pound with Accu pells 14.3 Grains. However I'm now using sovereigns at15.9g and AA fields at 16g. These have proved to be a better weight for the rifle with better accuracy. I haven't chrono tested it with these yet but have tested with ballistics gel at 20yards they have a deeper penetration than the 14.3g pellets. I have also tested some 18g pellets which were useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) There is also something else to consider here as we'll. This rifle come as standard with a moderator and when testing with a chrono the moderator is often (depending on chrono) removed. You can do a simple test here which will prove my point. Fire your zeroed rifle at a target at 30 yards and now remove the moderator and shot at the same target and you see that the pellet drops below your point of aim by about 10 - 15mm depend ending on pellet weight. This not un commen across most PCP rifles that come with the moderator as standard. If you could test your rifle with the moderator still attached with a chrono you will find that it's going to be about 11.6ft pound. The manufactures of all sub 12ft pound rifles have to be carefull as if they supply a rifle of 11.9ftpound and you add a moderator and change the pellet weight to what the rifle was tested with by the manufacturer you may now be firing over the 12ft pound. With PCP rifles there is a principle that the longer the barrel the more power hence why carbines have less shots per fill as they use more air to get the same power as the longer barrel version. So don't panic about your chrono reading as it's not a true reflection of what your rifle is really firing with the moderator on. Edited June 8, 2014 by oddjobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) There is also something else to consider here as we'll. This rifle come as standard with a moderator and when testing with a chrono the moderator is removed. You can do a simple test here which will prove my point. Fire your zeroed rifle at a target at 30 yards and now remove the moderator and shot at the same target and you see that the pellet drops below your point of aim by about 10 - 15mm depend ending on pellet weight. This not un commen across most PCP rifles that come with the moderator as standard. If you could test your rifle with the moderator still attached with a chrono you will find that it's going to be about 11.6ft pound. The manufactures of all sub 12ft pound rifles have to be carefull as if they supply a rifle of 11.9ftpound and you add a moderator and change the pellet weight to what the rifle was tested with by the manufacturer you may now be firing over the 12ft pound. With PCP rifles there is a principle that the longer the barrel the more power hence why carbines have less shots per fill as they use more air to get the same power as the longer barrel version. So don't panic about your chrono reading as it's not a true reflection of what your rifle is really firing with the moderator on. Why the hell would you remove the moderator to chrono the gun? Never have on any of the PCP rifles I own or have owned, including 2 x Daystate, 3 X BSA Super 10, BSA Ultra MMC, Theoben Rapid, Evanix Rainstorm, Webley Venom Sidewinder, HW 100. All tested with silencer on! Edited June 8, 2014 by secretagentmole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Depends on the chrono being used. The COMBRO CB-625 Mk4 Air Rifle Chronograph Chronoscope. Will not fit on larger diameter moderators and the mod is often removed. However I agree that had a Chrony F1 Chronograph been used then obviously no no to remove. Question is how was the rifle tested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Why the hell would you remove the moderator to chrono the gun? Never have on any of the PCP rifles I own or have owned, including 2 x Daystate, 3 X BSA Super 10, BSA Ultra MMC, Theoben Rapid, Evanix Rainstorm, Webley Venom Sidewinder, HW 100. All tested with silencer on! I should have put often removed depending on the type of Chrono used. Good point thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Depends on the chrono being used. The COMBRO CB-625 Mk4 Air Rifle Chronograph Chronoscope. Will not fit on larger diameter moderators and the mod is often removed. However I agree that had a Chrony F1 Chronograph been used then obviously no no to remove. Question is how was the rifle tested? why,,,mine fits on any mod at all,,i,m yet to find one that it wont just do as chris has said and chrono the full charge to empty and you will then end up with a full graph of where your rifle performs best atb Evo Edited June 8, 2014 by evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkgoose Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 +1 And In other words from max fill down you will see the peak of the curve at where its most power is .. u should do this a few times taking note of where your highest lbf is on on the gauge and at what point it drops you then will have a good guide to where to fill to and use too for shot count and testing your out put for lbfs this may vary on pellet weight but only very small differences on your bar pressure reading all of this helps save wasting extra air on fill , missing targets etc... and helps keep u on the right side of the law ... eg if you tune your rifle to 11.8 lbfs at a top fill.... say on my raider 190 bar it will go over 12lbf at the top of the curve not good!! Get to know your rifle as no two are the same ever. Well worth time and effort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Rcooke2552 still hasn't answered the question on how his rifle was tested with or without moderator!! It will be interesting to see the answer on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkgoose Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Have you considered that the reason the mod makes a diffence is that it stops a lot of the air rushing in to the f1 or crombo and giveing a false reading? A common problem with the muzzle being to close ! Think about how a mod works what it does ....it has little if any affect on lbfs! the effect is about 1-3% so if 11.8 lb would be about .345 I think at 3% not alot. Edited June 8, 2014 by norfolkgoose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcooke25552 Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I tested with both and the mod made next to no difference. The problem I'm having is I'm shooting things, and they aren't dying clean. No I don't need a lecture on shot placement etc, I can head shot a pigeon and it just laughs at me and flys off. I feel there is something seriously wrong sonewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital Bee Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I shoot an AT 44. Firstly, you seem to get lower power for the first two mags, if you fill to 200Bar, as the spring valve doesn't seem to open properly. I'd also ask what pellets you use. I started out with Accupell's, but has a bad tin that put accuracy all over the place; I changed to AA Diabolo Fields which greatly improved accuracy. Regarding headshots to pigeons; if your pellets are hitting zero, they shouldn't fly away, so maybe check your pellet choice (I take pigeon at 20yds with an 8fpe HW30) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) I tested with both and the mod made next to no difference. The problem I'm having is I'm shooting things, and they aren't dying clean. No I don't need a lecture on shot placement etc, I can head shot a pigeon and it just laughs at me and flys off. I feel there is something seriously wrong sonewhere Sorry to say this, but it is your shot placement. If your pellet is arriving at your poa, then it has sufficient energy for the predicted trajectory. If your shots are hitting them in the head and they are just flying off, laughing, then the power would have to be so low, the pellet probably wouldn't leave the barrel! And if it did, it wouldn't be anywhere near your poa 10lbs will kill pigeons with head shots all day long up to and way beyond sensible air rifle hunting ranges Edited June 28, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) I tested with both and the mod made next to no difference. The problem I'm having is I'm shooting things, and they aren't dying clean. No I don't need a lecture on shot placement etc, I can head shot a pigeon and it just laughs at me and flys off. I feel there is something seriously wrong sonewhere If you are hitting a pigeon in the head with 10 ft / lb of energy then the pellet will go clean through at 30 yards , you may not want a lecture but fact is you do need to work on shot placement or your trying to shoot things that are well out of range. Edited June 28, 2014 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitetail Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 I agree with fenboy, a pigeon hit squarely in the head with 10 ftb is a dead pigeon, your not hitting them where you think you are . Eley used to publish a list with how many ftb it took to kill various game, and I think from memory a pigeon is 2 ftb . I used to hunt very successfully with my theoben fenman .177 with premiers , a friend chronographed it one day and it was shooting at under 8ftb and I lost all confidence in it over night . A accurate rifle shooting 10 ftb will be just fine for hunting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I find this a little strange as my Hatsan AT 44 10 has a different poi if I remove the moderator. I Also find that 16g pellets have a slightly higher poi over 14.3g and 18g pellets. I use AA field Diablo 16g and at produce groupings of 10 shots within the size of a 10 pence piece at 50 yards. I have adjusted the trigger to be very light as sometimes a stiff trigger can affect the poi. I also have to be honest and say that the my AT 44 10 does not let pigeons laugh or fly after being shot. Neither do rabbits, or rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I find this a little strange as my Hatsan AT 44 10 has a different poi if I remove the moderator. I Also find that 16g pellets have a slightly higher poi over 14.3g and 18g pellets. I use AA field Diablo 16g and at produce groupings of 10 shots within the size of a 10 pence piece at 50 yards. I have adjusted the trigger to be very light as sometimes a stiff trigger can affect the poi. I also have to be honest and say that the my AT 44 10 does not let pigeons laugh or fly after being shot. Neither do rabbits, or rats. if any of my guns were doing what yours is I would get shut atb Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Please explain Evo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitetail Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 It's not unusual for a rifle to shoot to a different point of aim without a moderator fitted, you have removed several ounces from the end of your barrel . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Good point Whitetail and also a credulous one. There seems to be a few old timers on here that have incredulous and vacuous comments but time served on PW forums out weighs facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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