Crash72 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Got my FAC today, so happy! Under the wording additional conditions it states - The .25 Air Rifle and .17 HMR rifle and ammo shall be used for shooting vermin and ground game and for zeroing on ranges or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. I'm assuming it all means a Closed Certificate. Can I shoot on any land with permission if it's cleared without ringing my FEO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) closed mate colin edit to say just read rest of post if land is cleared and you have permission then you are ok to shoot Edited June 27, 2014 by colin lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 You have a Closed Ticket. I suggest you ring your FEO and completely understand what you can and cannot do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull dog Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Closed mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 You have a Closed Ticket. I suggest you ring your FEO and completely understand what you can and cannot do. always best to know what you can and cant do colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash72 Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I'm going to call just looking for more information and other situations. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Got my FAC today, so happy! Under the wording additional conditions it states - The .25 Air Rifle and .17 HMR rifle and ammo shall be used for shooting vermin and ground game and for zeroing on ranges or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. I'm assuming it all means a Closed Certificate. Can I shoot on any land with permission if it's cleared without ringing my FEO? How would you know if it's cleared without ringing him/her? Don't just take somebodies word that it has been cleared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 How would you know if it's cleared without ringing him/her? Don't just take somebodies word that it has been cleared. true but i phoned my feo about a golf course a while back and he said don't the golf course know? so i replied i didn't phone them as i thought it best to ask you his reply, wait while i check.......................yes it's cleared for calibre i asked and in future can i check with land owners who gave me permission 1st and to phone feo if they don't know to save me keep ringing feo's colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 true but i phoned my feo about a golf course a while back and he said don't the golf course know? so i replied i didn't phone them as i thought it best to ask you his reply, wait while i check.......................yes it's cleared for calibre i asked and in future can i check with land owners who gave me permission 1st and to phone feo if they don't know to save me keep ringing feo's colin So basically anyone can tell there land is cleared as they may require your services and you just go ahead and shoot not actually knowing if it really is. Your FEO is putting your FAC at risk if it's closed by advising you to do this as you must legally follow the conditions on you FAC which says the land must be deemed suitable by them not on the say so of a third party (you risk losing your FAC by not abiding by the conditions). If it's so much hassle for your FEO to check land for you then surely it would be in your and there interest to give you an open FAC. My advise would be not to take the landowners word for it being cleared but to ring your FEO (whether they like it or not) as it is there job and it keeps you legal. If they try telling you otherwise tell them of there obligations and that you are abiding by your conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 So basically anyone can tell there land is cleared as they may require your services and you just go ahead and shoot not actually knowing if it really is. Your FEO is putting your FAC at risk if it's closed by advising you to do this as you must legally follow the conditions on you FAC which says the land must be deemed suitable by them not on the say so of a third party (you risk losing your FAC by not abiding by the conditions). If it's so much hassle for your FEO to check land for you then surely it would be in your and there interest to give you an open FAC. My advise would be not to take the landowners word for it being cleared but to ring your FEO (whether they like it or not) as it is there job and it keeps you legal. If they try telling you otherwise tell them of there obligations and that you are abiding by your conditions. Good advice but think about emailing them and ask,then you have their answer on file for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 true but i phoned my feo about a golf course a while back and he said don't the golf course know? so i replied i didn't phone them as i thought it best to ask you his reply, wait while i check.......................yes it's cleared for calibre i asked and in future can i check with land owners who gave me permission 1st and to phone feo if they don't know to save me keep ringing feo's colin Err, no way I should put up with that one he should be taken to task for that one. Ask him to put it in writing if that's what they want otherwise you will just continue to phone for clearance checks. No place does it mention landowners wild or even educated guess about the police records for the land is acceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 When I applied for my centrefire I used my syndicates land, but FEO told me it hadn't been cleared and would need to come out and inspect. Reported that back to my shoot captain and he said 'That's rubbish because I used it to get my centrefire. That's why we have high seats because they insisted' Went back to FEO and he still said they had no record! We ended up driving round and showing him all our high seats around the estate to get it re-cleared. So is a piece of land cleared or not cleared, who actually knows? The only thing I'm certain of is that until I get my ticket opened up I'll be making a call to FEO and not take anyone else's word for it. They might not stand to lose their FAC, but I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 true but i phoned my feo about a golf course a while back and he said don't the golf course know? so i replied i didn't phone them as i thought it best to ask you his reply, wait while i check.......................yes it's cleared for calibre i asked and in future can i check with land owners who gave me permission 1st and to phone feo if they don't know to save me keep ringing feo's colin He sounds like a bit of a tool for coming out with a statement like that in my opinion. Among other things that is what an feo is for, only they can truly know if land is cleared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 So basically anyone can tell there land is cleared as they may require your services and you just go ahead and shoot not actually knowing if it really is. Your FEO is putting your FAC at risk if it's closed by advising you to do this as you must legally follow the conditions on you FAC which says the land must be deemed suitable by them not on the say so of a third party (you risk losing your FAC by not abiding by the conditions). If it's so much hassle for your FEO to check land for you then surely it would be in your and there interest to give you an open FAC. My advise would be not to take the landowners word for it being cleared but to ring your FEO (whether they like it or not) as it is there job and it keeps you legal. If they try telling you otherwise tell them of there obligations and that you are abiding by your conditions. i would guess what he meant by it was to ask land owner if he knows if the land has been cleared, not that it matters now as my ticket has been opened, so how would you go about if i was taking someone out on land i shoot, the farm i work on is cleared for .243 and when i take someone out deer stalking with me then i guess they have to phone local feo to check my land is cleared for their calibre as they can't just take my word for it.?? and i to take a lot of members of pigeon watch with me rabbit shooting so i better tell them to phone feo to check as i could be putting their fac at risk?? i am sure when ever you take people out you get them to check with your feo as you wouldn't want them to take your word for it then. colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 i would guess what he meant by it was to ask land owner if he knows if the land has been cleared, not that it matters now as my ticket has been opened, so how would you go about if i was taking someone out on land i shoot, the farm i work on is cleared for .243 and when i take someone out deer stalking with me then i guess they have to phone local feo to check my land is cleared for their calibre as they can't just take my word for it.?? and i to take a lot of members of pigeon watch with me rabbit shooting so i better tell them to phone feo to check as i could be putting their fac at risk?? i am sure when ever you take people out you get them to check with your feo as you wouldn't want them to take your word for it then. colin That's exactly what a responsible FAC holder should do as that is what is required of them on a closed certificate. I don't know you personally so why would your word be taken as true (sorry I'm not trying to offend you or call you a liar, just making a valid point). Land owners can say it's cleared but that means absolutely nothing, it is down to the area force you intend to shoot to tell you if land is cleared not a third party. Example:- Farmer phones you saying he has a fox taking chickens and is desperate so he has had your number from someone who's land you shoot on. You ask if it's been FAC cleared for your .223 as you have a closed ticket and the desperate farmer who needs the fox gone and can't find anyone else says yes (even if it hasn't) as he wants the fox gone. You go and shoot the fox on land which may not have been cleared and have broken the conditions on your FAC. So and so said it was cleared will not stand up in a court of law when your conditions tell you that the land must be deemed suitable by the police. I don't take people out I give them my permission and only to open ticket holders but if I was to let someone on with a closed condition I would tell them it is cleared for say .243 but it is down to them to confirm with the firearms department as it them that can verify this and no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 That's exactly what a responsible FAC holder should do as that is what is required of them on a closed certificate. I don't know you personally so why would your word be taken as true (sorry I'm not trying to offend you or call you a liar, just making a valid point). Land owners can say it's cleared but that means absolutely nothing, it is down to the area force you intend to shoot to tell you if land is cleared not a third party. Example:- Farmer phones you saying he has a fox taking chickens and is desperate so he has had your number from someone who's land you shoot on. You ask if it's been FAC cleared for your .223 as you have a closed ticket and the desperate farmer who needs the fox gone and can't find anyone else says yes (even if it hasn't) as he wants the fox gone. You go and shoot the fox on land which may not have been cleared and have broken the conditions on your FAC. So and so said it was cleared will not stand up in a court of law when your conditions tell you that the land must be deemed suitable by the police. I don't take people out I give them my permission and only to open ticket holders but if I was to let someone on with a closed condition I would tell them it is cleared for say .243 but it is down to them to confirm with the firearms department as it them that can verify this and no one else. no offence taken and i understand what you are saying i have taken maybe 25 pw members out on land i shoot and have never had one ask me for the details of where we are going so they can phone feo to check it's ok for them to shoot, 5 of them came deer stalking and 3 had closed ticket but took my word when i said land is cleared for .243 of the 6 farmers i shoot for and can't imagine they would tell me or anyone else it is cleared if it wasn't but as you say i could imagine a desperate farmer somewhere may tell a little white lie to get job done, if we are saying nobody can be trusted then i would guess if a closed ticket holder was to go on a well know deer stalk with a well respected stalker then he in theory he would need to know all the land he would be going to that day as you would not want to trust him, i know as has been said it's your fac at stake but if i met a new farmer and he assured me he know's his land is cleared for calibre i had i would of trusted him, the golf course i mentioned earlier didn't know hence why i called feo, colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 no offence taken and i understand what you are saying i have taken maybe 25 pw members out on land i shoot and have never had one ask me for the details of where we are going so they can phone feo to check it's ok for them to shoot, 5 of them came deer stalking and 3 had closed ticket but took my word when i said land is cleared for .243 of the 6 farmers i shoot for and can't imagine they would tell me or anyone else it is cleared if it wasn't but as you say i could imagine a desperate farmer somewhere may tell a little white lie to get job done, if we are saying nobody can be trusted then i would guess if a closed ticket holder was to go on a well know deer stalk with a well respected stalker then he in theory he would need to know all the land he would be going to that day as you would not want to trust him, i know as has been said it's your fac at stake but if i met a new farmer and he assured me he know's his land is cleared for calibre i had i would of trusted him, the golf course i mentioned earlier didn't know hence why i called feo, colin At the end of the day I would have thought most people would only say their land is cleared if it was and most people would take their word for it but my main argument was the fact that your FEO was wrong for asking you to see if it was cleared when it is their job to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 At the end of the day I would have thought most people would only say their land is cleared if it was and most people would take their word for it but my main argument was the fact that your FEO was wrong for asking you to see if it was cleared when it is their job to do so. lets be honest feo's live in their own little world where they make the rules up as they go along till the **** hits the fan then i guess they would know nothing, and if everyone who was to phone their feo every time they visited new shooting ground be it land they have just obtained or just going for a one off with an invite from someone then fac applications and variations would take twice as long as the feo would be on the phone most of the day telling people if this land and that land is cleared for what ever calibre colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 i would guess what he meant by it was to ask land owner if he knows if the land has been cleared, not that it matters now as my ticket has been opened, so how would you go about if i was taking someone out on land i shoot, the farm i work on is cleared for .243 and when i take someone out deer stalking with me then i guess they have to phone local feo to check my land is cleared for their calibre as they can't just take my word for it.?? and i to take a lot of members of pigeon watch with me rabbit shooting so i better tell them to phone feo to check as i could be putting their fac at risk?? i am sure when ever you take people out you get them to check with your feo as you wouldn't want them to take your word for it then. colin Colin Your experience is exactly the same as mine. Going back for many years, in various counties, it has been my experience that licensing staff have suggested a shooters first port of call was to ask the farmer. Only if that failed was there a need to speak to licensing. In fact, from memory, this advice was even printed in the guidelines. However, having just checked the latest ones I see that it now says shooters should inquire with their licensing department. As my farm is cleared for 30 cal, I have always told the odd novice who has shot here that he's good to go..................I guess I should now tell them to ring their feo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Colin Your experience is exactly the same as mine. Going back for many years, in various counties, it has been my experience that licensing staff have suggested a shooters first port of call was to ask the farmer. Only if that failed was there a need to speak to licensing. In fact, from memory, this advice was even printed in the guidelines. However, having just checked the latest ones I see that it now says shooters should inquire with their licensing department. As my farm is cleared for 30 cal, I have always told the odd novice who has shot here that he's good to go..................I guess I should now tell them to ring their feo guess i had better put in for my renewal no as it runs out feb 2015 lol they could be busy answering the phone colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 guess i had better put in for my renewal no as it runs out feb 2015 lol they could be busy answering the phone colin They actually answer the phone where you are? You're lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 They actually answer the phone where you are? You're lucky. just a shame they don't reply to their emails but that's another story colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 just a shame they don't reply to their emails but that's another story colin Damn that's a bity worrying is this Beds/ Herts Colin? The reason I asked is I did a land check over the phone today and they couldn't find it so suggested I e-mail to get it cleared. I don't want to be waiting for ages and not get a response. Cheers Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Damn that's a bity worrying is this Beds/ Herts Colin? The reason I asked is I did a land check over the phone today and they couldn't find it so suggested I e-mail to get it cleared. I don't want to be waiting for ages and not get a response. Cheers Neil pm inbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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