Danoi99 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I am about to start patterning my gun. Got some thick lining paper and have made some 4ft squares with a 6 inch diameter circle in the middle, was gonna shoot from 40yards to pattern. Too far? (using 1/2 choke at the moment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 40 yards is the 'official correct' distance to work out the percentages. But you will find that I think at 40 yards, 4 ft may not be enough. What you do is shoot (ideally from a pre dirtied barrel) at the target - THEN draw a 30" diameter circle around the observed centre of the pattern (which will probably not be quite centred around the aiming mark). Then count the pellets inside the circle - and work out the percentage of the total. Large sheets pick up the slightest breath of wind - and its all quite time consuming. Also you should do several shots from each barrel, then with different chokes, different cartridges etc - you can see that it can grow! If you are only interested in assessing relative patterns (different cartridges and chokes) and pattern eveness of spread etc., you will find that less than 40 yards makes life a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 16yards isnt a bad distnce either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 40 yards is good. To get an idea I've first tried at 20 yards and measured the overall spread but on going to the full 40 yards, the same combination of barrel and cartridge more often than not has proved to be more open than the 20 yards suggested. It may just pay to sacrifice one 'target' and aim 2 or 3 shots at a mark and from this dense pattern deduce the pattern centre. Then, if necessary, you can alter your point of aim to ensure that the 30 inch circle will be fully covered by the 4' 'plate'. With 1/2 choke you should be OK. As John indicates, the average from 6 shots from a previously fired barrel gives a satisfactory field use assessment. If you're looking at gun fit, then whereas it's best to aim at a smaller 4' plate for pattern density/quality assessment, for fit where you don't aim, Cookoff's 16 yards is valid for good reason. Access to the standard 6' plate simply means that you can do both checks at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 i think for every 1" out at 16yards is a foot at 40yards (could be more / less. i forgot the distance.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Depends on the calibre / bore size. for a .410 40 yards is too far for a 8 or 10 bore a bit short perhaps. Going one step further so what if your 12 bore gives a great 40 yard pattern if your using it for shooting Skeet, ducks over a flash, bolted rabbits etc. I say pattern it at the distance you will be using it and forget convention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 What are you aiming (excuse the pin) to achieve cartridges choke performance or gunfit? Gunfit 16 yards Cartridge choke performance different ranges to see the effects. 20,30,40,50 yards for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 What are you aiming (excuse the pin) to achieve cartridges choke performance or gunfit? Gunfit 16 yards Cartridge choke performance different ranges to see the effects. 20,30,40,50 yards for me. Agree entirely with WW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoi99 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Thanks for all your responses. I am actually trying to ascertain the point of aim and to get a rough idea of pattern density. It's a Remington Wingmaster pump action that I bought primarily for pigeon shooting. Although being a gluten for punishment, I have started shooting clays with it. Had quite a few easy targets missed with this gun. I have had the feeling that I was bang on aim wise, but the targets don't break. Could just be the fact that I have been shooting a side by side for a long while. Just want to see if there's an obvious problem such as gun shooting too high (70/30 above POA) I have read that these guns tend to shoot quite flat (50/50) and it seems to fit me well. Is it best to hold the gun as you normally would (seeing a tiny bit of the rib) or hold it dead flat so none of the rib is visible? I would have though that it's wise to mount the gun as you usually do, point at the center of the target and fire to see where the shot is going? Lots of different views on this when you look online. Thanks for you help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Here is a good exercise to try get your target, a large piece of paper with center marked as normal with the two cross lines ver and hor Now step back 15yards, what you now going to do is face the target. You close your eyes, mount the gun as you would normaly do remember to keep eyes closed Open eyes dont not move the stock were it is on your shoulder, you move just the barrel to center it to the target. Fire when safe to do so, you will then see the results, you may get a supprise or maybe not if every thing fits and the gun suits you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 For what you want (i.e. see where the pattern is being placed), 15 or 16 yards is a good distance. The key thing is that you need to mount and shoot at the pattern plate as you would at a clays (or live) moving target - NOT use the gun like a rifle. This is as johnphilip explains above. Look at the target, "mount and shoot" - like that. Avoid the "mount, wriggle to adjust mount, take deliberate rifle style aim - shoot". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesw Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 If the gun doesn't fit you properly you won't hit the clays I would start with that before wasting time patterning ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 If the gun doesn't fit you properly you won't hit the clays I would start with that before wasting time patterning ? True, but the pattern plate exercise above isn't true patterning, it is part of what a gun fitter does. Once the gun is about right for eye placement - a few shots taken at a pattern plate can be used by the fitter to ascertain where the pattern is placed with the shooters particular style of mount. On the two occasions I have had fitting done, both fitters have used a pattern plate much as above and watched carefully how I gun mount to ensure that I am 'shotgun mounting' not trying to use it like a rifle. Pattern being placed a bit high, low, left or right can be adjusted by the fit (drop at comb/heel and cast) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Knock up an extra sheet for when you pattern it as previously described adding a central 'target'. From 16 yards practice mounting on that target as you normally would until the gun comes up smoothly on to it without having to make any further adjustment after the gun comes into your shoulder. When you're happy, mount and fire 3 shots. From the dense pattern deduce its centre and then measure any difference between that point and the target mark. 16 yards is used as, give or take, the shooter's eye is one yard from the muzzle so any error at that point is 1/16 of that at the target. (This 1/16" for every 1" error at the target is the starting point [not the be all and end all] that the fitter will use to make any necessary adjustments.) Once you know this discrepancy, you can decide what action, if any, to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoi99 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Thanks very much for all of your help. I will have a pop at this 16yrd lark and see what happens. My gun is fitted with a standard Remchoke 1/2 , so I might get a Teague 5/8 and have a play with that. Always had better results with tighter chokes. Anyway, I will let you know how I get on. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoi99 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 If the gun doesn't fit you properly you won't hit the clays I would start with that before wasting time patterning ? Thanks, I understand that, but to be honest, I am an average build..6ft male without a hump or a cloven hoof. And this gun does seem to fit me like a glove. I have hit every target on some challenging stands, but have also had some weirdly missed targets. Could be the fact that I have been shooting a side by sidefor so long. Just gonna see what the crack is on the old pattern plate....if I suspect that gun fit is the issue I will have to delve into my dwindling stash of dosh, and get someone to have a look at it. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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