keg Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Only just read this and have no axe to grind in any area but as it's the holiday season and the thread has only been going for 3 days, might BASC Dave be on holiday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Only just read this and have no axe to grind in any area but as it's the holiday season and the thread has only been going for 3 days, might BASC Dave be on holiday? He did say over on the SD he was 'about to go away' (22/7) so I guess he is on holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Personally I find it disheartening that of all the shooting organisations we have out there, BASC are the only one who puts in their two pennerth worth on here, and I'm pretty sure David leaps to BASC's defence from a sense of loyalty to his employers as well as from personal interest; he certainly doesn't NEED to. This issue effects members of the CA, NGO, CPSA, BFSS, NRA ,NSRA, SACS etc etc. but I don't think I've ever seen any feedback on here from any of these, on any issue,with the exception of SACS and the matter of insurance. Also, from what I've learned, none of our organisations can do anything but lobby and debate. We are not a political threat with the will to throw our weight behind any particular party and as a result have no political leverage.I sincerely believe that we have been at the stage for some time where our organisations view the survival of the 'organisation' as their number one priority. Saying that, I also believe that the attempt to portray shooting as a vital part of the British economic strategy via the PACEC study a fabulous piece of propaganda; it's only failing is that it was then edited and portrayed by a less than unbiased media. The matter of compliance with the GP's report I'm afraid, is, like most other issues, now firmly in the hands of the individual applicant to address. In the face of a lack of opposition,once it is established as 'accepted practice' it will be rolled out nationwide and indeed become 'accepted practice'. As has been said, why would the police take the chance on someone lying on their application when they can get an applicants actual medical history from their GP at the applicants cost? Edited July 26, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I can see the Polices` point of view, you want the certificate, you`ve got to supply the proof that you are a suitable candidate, hence referees and filling in the application form, why should the general public pay for a doctors letter so that you can have your shotgun certificate, its you that wants it. so pay for it. I don't want a certificate they say I have to have one I would rather be able to go into a shop and buy what I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidawson Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 a little update... just had a call from the firearms department saying they are still waiting for the medical report and cant continue with the application till they receive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Only just read this and have no axe to grind in any area but as it's the holiday season and the thread has only been going for 3 days, might BASC Dave be on holiday? Must be a ******* long holiday, unless they realy are going to do nothing about these medical forms. Edited August 12, 2014 by Luckyshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 a little update... just had a call from the firearms department saying they are still waiting for the medical report and cant continue with the application till they receive it. Is this because you have informed licensing you're not complying, or simply because your GP hasn't got round to it yet? There are people in Essex who applied for their tickets in January, who are still waiting, I'm assuming regardless of whether or not a GP's report has been requested. So much for 'compliance' making for a quicker turnover, as some forces are implying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian g Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 a little update... just had a call from the firearms department saying they are still waiting for the medical report and cant continue with the application till they receive it. ring and ask to speak to dave wishman if you havnt done already hes about the only one there that has any common sense and will give you straight answers about whats happening think he is the assistant manger or the manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Durham has been trying this on for months, of the 4 people i personally know didn't comply, all were granted their certificates with nothing more said about it. Ignore it and proceed as normal. Firearms licensing, or to give it its real name firearms certification (important difference), is supposedly in place to protect the public, therefore the public are the benficiaries and should pay the lion share of the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidawson Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Is this because you have informed licensing you're not complying, or simply because your GP hasn't got round to it yet? There are people in Essex who applied for their tickets in January, who are still waiting, I'm assuming regardless of whether or not a GP's report has been requested. So much for 'compliance' making for a quicker turnover, as some forces are implying. was because I hadn't taken the letter to the doctors asking for one, when I mentioned to the FLO isn't that what we sign giving you permission to speak to the doctors about on the application for he stated no that was so when an application is granted they can let the doctor know that I hold a licence which is somewhat of a contradiction to what the wording is on the application. rather annoying as a medical from my doctors is 100 quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 a little update... just had a call from the firearms department saying they are still waiting for the medical report and cant continue with the application till they receive it. If that is exactly what they said, and you don't have any other reasons that they feel needs investigating further (e.g. history of anxiety/depression) then I believe what they have said is unlawful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 rather annoying as a medical from my doctors is 100 quid. You'd be cheaper joining BASC and then getting them on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidawson Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 You'd be cheaper joining BASC and then getting them on the case. i'm with basc, on page 1 I think is the response I got from them stating it's my responsibility to get the medical report for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 i'm with basc, on page 1 I think is the response I got from them stating it's my responsibility to get the medical report for them And you still joined them after that statement fom them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidawson Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 And you still joined them after that statement fom them. more for the insurance than their limited help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 was because I hadn't taken the letter to the doctors asking for one, when I mentioned to the FLO isn't that what we sign giving you permission to speak to the doctors about on the application for he stated no that was so when an application is granted they can let the doctor know that I hold a licence which is somewhat of a contradiction to what the wording is on the application. rather annoying as a medical from my doctors is 100 quid. Sorry, but your FEO is pulling your plonker. You sign the application which gives permission for licensing to contact your GP, as you stated, and that is all you are required to do by law. It is not your responsibility to contact your GP nor request a 'report', nor pay for it, nor then submit it to licensing. Your FEO is telling you lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 more for the insurance than their limited help There may not be any organisations which are willing to do anything, but there are cheaper organisations if insurance is all you're concerned with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong but if you are paying the GP for a report then the GP is acting on your behalf for financial gain. Isn't that as much a conflict of interest as a GP being a referee and charging (which is a no no). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) With respect chaps this is an issue for all of us and for our shooting organisations. What have they said about this ? I am very disappointed but sadly, not surprised, that 'putting our money where their mouth is' has resulted in no support whatever for this chap. It will be me or you on the next application and, assuming as said there are no obvious reasons why our chap should need a medical report then all shooting organisations should be on this like a ton of lead (or non-toxic shot). Miserable no-show. p.s. They should refuse rather than not progress your application if there is justifiable reason and since they have not checked, how can they refuse? Use you BASC legal insurance to suggest you will ask a solicitor to quote the law to them if you can't get in touch with the FEO recommended above. Check first with BASC, before you do, as I have a feeling you may be swimming without a life-belt. I will happily help with your costs if you take them on. I bet this doesnt make the BASC magazine ! Edit spelling Edited August 12, 2014 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian g Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 ring and ask to speak to dave wishman if you havnt done already hes about the only one there that has any common sense and will give you straight answers about whats happening think he is the assistant manger or the manager have you rung and spoke to dave wishman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 have you rung and spoke to dave wishman Essential first step - using a recommended contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 If it happens on my renewal, I will refuse it, permission to contact your GP, as, and when necessary is enough, more than enough for public reassurance - this is insurance for an incompetent (in the truest sense) police service. Good old BASC - NOT Kes, I STRONGLY disagree with you. In my experience the Merseyside Police are very effective, efficient and good people to deal with. Let us remember they have a difficult job to do. We know nothing about the OP's application and why should we. We don't know what background checks have thrown up. What we do know is that we don't have the responsibility to advise the Chief Constable to certify anyone as suitable for an SC or FAC. What we do know if there is another person with legally owned firearms that flips and causes a tragedy the media will jump all over the Police and the rest of us who are perfectly law abiding owners of firearms owners with the inevitable call for more restrictions. If the police consider there is a need for more info I see no reason why we should not supply it, after all it's our request and choice to apply for the certificates. Let us not use every opportunity to knock the police - they have a very difficult job to do, almost a no win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Kes, I STRONGLY disagree with you. In my experience the Merseyside Police are very effective, efficient and good people to deal with. Let us remember they have a difficult job to do. We know nothing about the OP's application and why should we. We don't know what background checks have thrown up. What we do know is that we don't have the responsibility to advise the Chief Constable to certify anyone as suitable for an SC or FAC. What we do know if there is another person with legally owned firearms that flips and causes a tragedy the media will jump all over the Police and the rest of us who are perfectly law abiding owners of firearms owners with the inevitable call for more restrictions. If the police consider there is a need for more info I see no reason why we should not supply it, after all it's our request and choice to apply for the certificates. Let us not use every opportunity to knock the police - they have a very difficult job to do, almost a no win situation. If the police consider there is a need for more info, then they have been given the authority to contact the op's doctor and ask for more info. We only apply for or renew certificates as it is imposed upon us to do so.within the criteria laid down there is a part that you have to sign giving the police access to your medical records,if they want information all they have to do is request it. Your scenario about someone else "flipping " is very poor,please tell me what difference it would make to the outcome of said person "flipping" if he had supplied his medical records,or if the police had requested them. None whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 If the police consider there is a need for more info, then they have been given the authority to contact the op's doctor and ask for more info. We only apply for or renew certificates as it is imposed upon us to do so.within the criteria laid down there is a part that you have to sign giving the police access to your medical records,if they want information all they have to do is request it. Your scenario about someone else "flipping " is very poor,please tell me what difference it would make to the outcome of said person "flipping" if he had supplied his medical records,or if the police had requested them. None whatsoever. + 1. Regardless of what background checks throw up, it has nothing whatsoever to do with an applicant being requested by licensing to submit a GP's medical report, pay for it and submit it to licensing. The applicant is under no obligation by law to do this; the applicants obligation as required by law is to submit an honest application, sign it and enclose the application fee. Nothing more. If background checks throw up anything undesirable, then the applicant will be refused, it has always been thus. It isn't just people who 'highlight' a medical issue who are being targeted in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 I can see the Polices` point of view, you want the certificate, you`ve got to supply the proof that you are a suitable candidate, hence referees and filling in the application form, why should the general public pay for a doctors letter so that you can have your shotgun certificate, its you that wants it. so pay for it. No the point of a licensing system is to provide public safety. For me if it was up to me there would be no firearms licesing system, so the police are basically getting me to pay for a report which I have not asked nor needed. If they feel so threatened by a medical condition I mgiht have then they should foot the bill after all they are apparently doing it for public safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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