mick miller Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Today was a bit of a mixed bag to say the least. Managed to get hold of some once fired Hornady for my 243 for 20p a case (200 of them) and promptly set about cleaning and resizing them. About 40 in disaster struck and my Hornady die/ Lee press combo started to be really hard to cycle. I did a couple more and noticed that the neck was now bent at around 3 degrees off true. Went back and the last three cases were all the same, inspected the die and somehow the decapping pin/ resizing pip had bent - the other cases all seemed fine. Not sure what happened but regardless, here's where the moment of stupidity kicked in. Okay I though, I have a Lee die set, I'll just re-run the lot through that to make sure it's all okay - yes, including the wonky Pisa cases. Duh. Now I have around 100 cases in amongst which are the three wonky ones. Why didn't I bin them you ask? Because, at times, I can be monumentally dull. So, the question is, how bad am I going to die? I cannot tell just by looking which ones were bent and which weren't, no splits in the neck, obvious bulges, gouges, creases etc. It all looks good in the hood, at least until I pull the trigger. Is it a case of firing and re-examining. Will it be okay (I watched some YouTube (the Oracle) guy pick up spent brass that had all sorts of damage and squished bits, resize and re-used it with no problems, none of my brass looks THAT bad). Sage advice required, without terrifying me to death please. Edited August 19, 2014 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 have you tried rolling them on a flat surface and seeing if the ones with the Pisa necks show up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Hard to say exactly how its all going to end i'm afraid, pictures of the offending cases could improve the chances of letting you know your own fate. The question you need to ask yourself is Why did i carry on when i felt a change, more force needed Something that you need to be aware of when reloading, any slight difference in force on the press makes me wonder, and i inspect, whether its resizing or seating. Maybe you didnt centre the case in the holder which caused the primer pocket to bend the decapping pin I would try and chamber "All" the cases you have partly prepped and see if the chamber without forcing the bolt, you may find the few that are not square as you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Nope, not a bad plan Stan. The question you need to ask yourself is Why did i carry on when i felt a change, more force needed Something that you need to be aware of when reloading, any slight difference in force on the press makes me wonder, and i inspect, whether its resizing or seating. Because, at times, I can be remarkably dull. The Hornady die has been really, really tight from the get go. I did follow the destructions to the letter, removed all the factory lube, re-lubed with sizing wax, adjusted things to where they should be. The Lee die seems to be way easier/ smoother to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Best suggestion thus far - chamber the lot, if any of them feel remotely tight, bin 'em. Edited August 19, 2014 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzbangwhallop Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) The Lee collet neck dies are known for keeping or moving the necks back to concentric...... decapping rods/pins/buttons have a habit of working themselves loose though that's just the way they are. If you're buying once fired brass it's always worth annealing the necks as part of your preparation..... I would clean the cases (including inside the necks), anneal, trim and then full length size. Neck size die once they've been through your rifle, although I run every case through the chamber to check whether a neck or a full length is required.... saves the "****" moment when you try and chamber a loaded round and it won't go. There was a good tip recently posted on here or another forum regarding dies throwing the necks out of concentricity........ when you position your die in the press and then back it out the recommended number of turns, it is possible that just tightening up the lock ring will throw your die out of true in relation to the shellholder - variations in press/die thread tolerances etc - the answer was to insert a couple of penny washers on top of the shellholder and just run that up against the underside of the die to hold it square to the threads and then tighten the locking ring. Cheers Fizz Edited August 20, 2014 by fizzbangwhallop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Best suggestion thus far - chamber the lot, if any of them feel remotely tight, bin 'em. As above but how come so many have problems with resizing, with the instructions from a reloading manual, manufacturers directions read and followed, lube applied ( in a small quantity all over the case ) then it should be a lot easier than changing a tyre on the motor. Starting to wonder if the firearms dept should suggest mentoring before one starts to reload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Don't know, your suggestion seems a bit extreme and slightly condescending though. When you think about it, it really isn't that straightforward to start from scratch without anyone to guide you. Lube was used, very little, I suspect a problem with the actual die from the off, as I mentioned to the retailer, as things didn't seem to be as smooth as it looks on videos. Oddly, or rather unsurprisingly, the Lee die is an utter doddle to use and very smooth when resizing the cases. Perhaps the Hornady ones are inferior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 The hornady custom grade dies are really close tolerance wise but need to be set up they don't come set. you will bend the zip spindle if it's set wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yup, that's what happened although I had thought (perhaps wrongly) I had it spot on, is the Lee die a looser tolerance then as it seems to breeze through them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yup, that's what happened although I had thought (perhaps wrongly) I had it spot on, is the Lee die a looser tolerance then as it seems to breeze through them? Well not really it's all a case of what suits you and your equipment, I'm lucky I dropped onto a rcbs really powerful press. So I can give it some with little effort. I have trashed a few dies and much more brass than I want think about learning but once your there it all come together I learnt the same way as you mate of my own back keep it up ! All the best Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Don't know, your suggestion seems a bit extreme and slightly condescending though. When you think about it, it really isn't that straightforward to start from scratch without anyone to guide you. Lube was used, very little, I suspect a problem with the actual die from the off, as I mentioned to the retailer, as things didn't seem to be as smooth as it looks on videos. Oddly, or rather unsurprisingly, the Lee die is an utter doddle to use and very smooth when resizing the cases. Perhaps the Hornady ones are inferior? Sorry to sound condescending, the mentoring was meant a little tongue in cheek but with a process that can be potentially very dangerous then if your unconfident then maybe a little help is needed to get you going. Lee gear is pretty straight forward and easy to use, loading some very accurate ammunition, the Hornady gear should not be inferior but maybe a little harder to set up. I have a redding die, which are meant to be very good but as much as I tried the fully resized cases were always a little tight in the chamber so I just stuck with the Lee die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I may just stick with the Lee for resizing then and the Hornady, for seating. No offence taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Once brass is out of true its scrap. If I am reading things correctly the de-prime pin / expander came real loose and cocked the necks off true? I feel straight necks is one of the most important factors in a good round and clock all mine when setting up the die, looking for 2 tho' max run out on high grade stuff and as square as I can make it. Hey we all do dumb stuff and scrap stuff off in a brainless moment A good way to get real straight necks is to bin the pin and de-prime, size and then expand with a sizing mandrel in thee different operations. The only way to check necks are true is a fixture and dial test indicator, if you can see its off it defo junk as you cannot bend back true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Out of interest what press are you using Redgum? I use the lee breach lock challenger press with the quick release, I find it brilliant, have all my dies set up so can switch and change from 243 to 308 quickly. Its plenty strong enough to full size 308 but then I never seem to have the issues of swinging off the press to get them sized, having a light smear all over the case seems to be the order of the day. You can dollop it on the lower part of the case but it should be just a smear on the neck and shoulder otherwise you may get dinks though these shoot out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I've got the same press, I was using imperial wax, literally a smear all around the case. I suspect, as suggested earlier, my resizing pip and pin combo had worked loose, this resulting a bent rod /snapped pin. Think I'll stick with the Lee die from now on too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Don't know, your suggestion seems a bit extreme and slightly condescending though. When you think about it, it really isn't that straightforward to start from scratch without anyone to guide you. Lube was used, very little, I suspect a problem with the actual die from the off, as I mentioned to the retailer, as things didn't seem to be as smooth as it looks on videos. Oddly, or rather unsurprisingly, the Lee die is an utter doddle to use and very smooth when resizing the cases. Perhaps the Hornady ones are inferior? I found Hornady dies really, really tight. Got fed up with them and went back to lee dies. Not had any problems since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Must agree, i have never been let down by lee dies. Have by RCBS and Hornady on occasion. If you need an extra thou or two off your shoulders just wetstone a couple of your shellholder ensuring you continually keep rotating it to remain square. Its generally over zealous gunsmithing going too tight on headspace. Never broke a die in my life Thanks mr Fister for sorting me out I owe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Never broke a die in my life Thanks mr Fister for sorting me out I owe you. I'm scratching my head here, how do you brake a die . PS, the 260 is quite impressive ;-) just a small glitch at the start. :-) :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I've got the same press, I was using imperial wax, literally a smear all around the case. I suspect, as suggested earlier, my resizing pip and pin combo had worked loose, this resulting a bent rod /snapped pin. Think I'll stick with the Lee die from now on too. had the same issue on my hornady fl die's. bent the spindle on mine as doesn't like to lock in place also I scrapped of the expander ball by taking a chunk out of it......gonna have a look whats on the shelfs in Florida and hopefully bring some stuff back if im aloud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Take the spindle from the hornady fl die and use it as a body die to set the shoulders back etc then expand your neck back with a forster nk die. Job done then if you fl or just nk size you have the same tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Back to the original question of how to find the bent cases: if you cut a V in a peice of wood, and put the main body of the case in this V that would keep the centre parallel to the table. Then bring the end of a metal ruler right angles to the neck, when you rotate the case in the V you should be able to see if a gap gets bigger or smaller between the neck and the ruler. If there is no change in the gap then it is to be assumed the neck is straight and if does differ then it is bent. Hopefully you can understand what I am getting at and it might help solve your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 had the same issue on my hornady fl die's. bent the spindle on mine as doesn't like to lock in place also I scrapped of the expander ball by taking a chunk out of it......gonna have a look whats on the shelfs in Florida and hopefully bring some stuff back if im aloud If you can get stuff shipped to your hotel/villa/someone you know over there use http://www.titanreloading.com/ major Lee distributor and great prices. Reloading stuff is perfectly OK to bring back, no problems with ITAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 theres a gander mountain 30 mins away from where im staying and apparently theres a lot of ranges and gun shops within 20 mins drive so will be on the search for some new gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Just had a look, nearest one to us will be in Tampa, may have a run down and see what they have, my son wants another pair of boots and these look just the job, http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=LaCrosse-Mens-Silencer-HD-800g-8-Hunting-Boot&i=415186 Edited August 29, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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