spandit Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Set the chrono up today to test the rounds I loaded a couple of weeks ago. Started off with 5 factory rounds (Hornady 55gr Z-Max .223) 1) 3269 2) 3178 3) 3232 4) 3160 5) 3175 Average: 3203 ES: 109.2 SD: 45.96 I then fired 5 homeloads, with 21.3gr H322 (55gr V-Max) but only two of them registered. Both using Federal cases 1) 2850 5) 2849 Average: 2849.5 ES: 1 (!) Interesting that they were so close to each other. A shame the others didn't record. Anyway, I followed these by 5 more with 21.6gr H322 (Federal cases) 1) 2843 2) 2868 3) 2879 4) 2846 5) 2853 Average: 2858 ES: 35.85 SD: 15.26 Good to see that the SD is quite low and the ES is a lot lower too. Shots 1 and 3 blew small holes in the primers. I think this is probably because I had to ream the pockets out but I'll check once I remove the old primers: Then my mother-in-law wanted a go so we shot another 5 factory rounds. This time the average was slightly higher (3259) but so was the ES and SD (215.8, 91.83 respectively). I presume the barrel temperature had some effect. Having a dirty barrel didn't slow them down as I might have expected. Made the mistake of sniffing the gases in the moderator afterwards - they burn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I've been known to chase speed but can honestly say I've never had pierced primers, a little flat maybe, well sort of blended in well with the case . The ES is a bit much isn't it I would check the one you didn't get readings of again that could be the one. What's the grouping like Allot depends really how far your going with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 The good ES shows that your doing your bit consistently, probably cos you weight yr powder, as for the primer holes, I have never used small rifle primers but have never had a large rifle primer problem like this, be interesting to see what others say. By your chrono readings of both factory and homeloads I wouldn't have thought you are having pressure probs unless your not using the best matching powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 What ES would you accept? Remember, the higher ones were with factory ammo... There is bound to be some error as the rifle wasn't securely fixed during firing, just rested on a bench. Grouping was much of a muchness, wasn't doing my best work, to be honest. Regarding the primers, I think the pocket is at fault, may be chamfered a little deep and not supporting the primer walls properly. Didn't affect the velocity, though Those primers are BAD! They're Remington. I have bought some Fiocchi to try. Will be interesting to see if they fail under higher loads but I do suspect the cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Can't help but wonder why if you're testing, or load development, you are not shooting the rifle as accurately as possible ES depends really how far your intending to shoot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I'm getting on well with fiocchi primers (large though). Personally though, I still think you'd be better off getting some new brass and starting afresh - you've a few too many variables from what I can see and it's leading to you not knowing what's causing various problems. Pick a bullet, primer, brand of brass and a powder and work from there; even then you've got several things to tweak (O.a.l, powder weight, case trim length and more if you want to get into more) but one thing at a time and keep things as consistant as possible. That way, if you change something and it causes a problem you'll know exactly what caused it and can do something about it. Can't help but wonder why if you're testing, or load development, you are not shooting the rifle as accurately as possible ES depends really how far your intending to shoot it. I'll second this google "ladder testing, load development" and you'll find many people who believe your most accurate load is somewhere in a group of different loads that all went the same place (vertically). i.e. despite varying powder weights, several loads all had a very similar drop - so small variations in your loads, powder temp, barrell temp etc will have as little effect as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Can't help but wonder why if you're testing, or load development, you are not shooting the rifle as accurately as possible ES depends really how far your intending to shoot it. I'm still improving my technique and trying to line up with the chrono meant I wasn't in the best position Just checked, the primers are Remington 6 1/2 - I've heard that 7 1/2 are better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) I'm still improving my technique and trying to line up with the chrono meant I wasn't in the best position Just checked, the primers are Remington 6 1/2 - I've heard that 7 1/2 are better Are 61/2 not for 22 hornet? http://remington.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/167 Edited August 24, 2014 by reggiegun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Are 61/2 not for 22 hornet? http://remington.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/167 I did not know that. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I want to work up to at least 3,000fps which is 1100ftlbs so I can shoot roe in Scotland. Once I get in the right region, I can look closer at accuracy without using the chrony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) I am sure you are all ready within the legal requirements for shooting roe in Scotland. Vmax on deer will ruin allot of meat. Have you thought of using some heavier bullets sorry miss read your velocity. But still say go heavier. 223 should get 3000 easy even with 60grain Edited August 24, 2014 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I've got a box of Fiocchi which I'll use in future. What is Relcom brass like? I am sure you are all ready within the legal requirements for shooting roe in Scotland. Vmax on deer will ruin allot of meat. Have you thought of using some heavier bullets sorry miss read your velocity. But still say go heavier. 223 should get 3000 easy even with 60grain It was more for the muzzle energy I wanted 3000, would 60gr be OK in a 1:12 barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Set the chrono up today to test the rounds I loaded a couple of weeks ago. Started off with 5 factory rounds (Hornady 55gr Z-Max .223) 1) 3269 2) 3178 3) 3232 4) 3160 5) 3175 Average: 3203 ES: 109.2 SD: 45.96 I then fired 5 homeloads, with 21.3gr H322 (55gr V-Max) but only two of them registered. Both using Federal cases 1) 2850 5) 2849 Average: 2849.5 ES: 1 (!) Interesting that they were so close to each other. A shame the others didn't record. Anyway, I followed these by 5 more with 21.6gr H322 (Federal cases) 1) 2843 2) 2868 3) 2879 4) 2846 5) 2853 Average: 2858 ES: 35.85 SD: 15.26 Good to see that the SD is quite low and the ES is a lot lower too. Shots 1 and 3 blew small holes in the primers. I think this is probably because I had to ream the pockets out but I'll check once I remove the old primers: Then my mother-in-law wanted a go so we shot another 5 factory rounds. This time the average was slightly higher (3259) but so was the ES and SD (215.8, 91.83 respectively). I presume the barrel temperature had some effect. Having a dirty barrel didn't slow them down as I might have expected. Made the mistake of sniffing the gases in the moderator afterwards - they burn! Them primers look like mine did on the 204 then i changed to the CCI-Br4 and all was well again Edited August 24, 2014 by pestcontrol1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I want to work up to at least 3,000fps which is 1100ftlbs so I can shoot roe in Scotland. Once I get in the right region, I can look closer at accuracy without using the chrony my 60gr .222 loads are doing circa 3000 with 20.8gr n133 ditch those primers! CCI400/450 or BR4 's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 would 60gr be OK in a 1:12 barrel? Which 60gr? it's length that counts Hornady 60gr vmax = 0.873" (look here ) Then go to here and enter your details. I'll guess at 2800fps with your rifle and 60gr vmax and you get: Stability Analysis Your bullet is UNSTABLE. The bullet is unstable. Expect bad accuracy, tumbling bullets, and keyholes in targets. SG = 0.886Bullet BC (G1):0.265Adjusted BC for 1 in 12" Twist:0.216Your BC is being compromised by:18%Minimum Twist Recommended:1 in 9.00" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Interesting, looking at the factory ammo, at the average of 3203fps, it says the bullet is marginally stable... Doesn't look like any V-Max is going to work in a 1:12 barrel... Edit: I'm using flat base bullet which this site underestimates the performance of Edited August 25, 2014 by spandit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry931 Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I suggest you "buy once cry once" and order some lapua brass - it's not too expensive in 223 and the primer pockets will stay tight through many loadings. You won't need to touch the pockets or flash holes. As for primers Rem 6.5 are not designed to take .223 pressure. You can get away with say a CCI 400 if you have a tight fitting firing pin but it still has a thiner cup. Ideally you want a Rem 7.5, CCI BR4 or 450 with the thick cups and you'll be in business All the best Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thanks, Henry. As I mentioned further up, I have bought some different primers anyway (tried to buy some 7.5 but they didn't have any in stock). That bullet stability thing shows that the Nosler Varmageddon are slightly more stable. Just noticed the stability thing doesn't work for flat based bullets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Relcom is basically Remington. One should never continue one you get flattened or punctured primers, just one and you should stop and end things thee and then and pull the rest. I don't like Remington primers and I suspect those tight pockets in Federal are due to oversized primers I have seen this in Remington primers before. CCI or Federal primers all the way for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Using this site: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi And allowing a bit for the plastic tip, gives good stability so I'll stick with what I've got for now Relcom is basically Remington. One should never continue one you get flattened or punctured primers, just one and you should stop and end things thee and then and pull the rest. I don't like Remington primers and I suspect those tight pockets in Federal are due to oversized primers I have seen this in Remington primers before. CCI or Federal primers all the way for me Won't be using Remington primers again anyway, switching to Fiocchi. Nothing left to pull, I'd only loaded 10 and it was the higher power ones that caused problems. As has been said, they were never suitable for the calibre. I didn't notice the holes until afterwards - will inspect the bolt to see if the face is damaged. I might load the same charge with the new primers and if they go OK, I'll up the charge. This is fun! I take the tip about buying new brass but I'm not planning on taking this to the max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Rem 6 1/2 are the thinnest primers I have used, not bad in the hornet managed to get through one with n110 once but it wa a silly hot day, I do like rem 7 1/2 bench rest but things being up in the air with Remington smk. Br4 are very pricy so try the cci srp. Or maybe federal match. Wouldn't be happy with the primers looking like that. I use h322 in the triple and at max it flattens the decs but no pitting On really hot days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Using this site: I take the tip about buying new brass but I'm not planning on taking this to the max. This really needs to be your first step - The case and case prep are where it all starts from, If you're looking for accuracy and consistency then you need a good foundation to build on. Clean and tumbled cases will also help with diagnosing problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Well, in the absence of new brass, I've loaded 10 once-fired Hornady brass, 5 with 21.6gr and 5 with 21.9gr H332 and Fiocchi primers. I've kept the COAL the same and haven't crimped them. Too wet to try shooting now sadly :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I used a bit of Hornady brass recently and it was fine in a 223 with no quality issues that were a major problem. Primer pockets are good. They went in fine, felt firm but not tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Well, in the absence of new brass, I've loaded 10 once-fired Hornady brass, 5 with 21.6gr and 5 with 21.9gr H332 and Fiocchi primers. I've kept the COAL the same and haven't crimped them. Too wet to try shooting now sadly :( I would of gone 3x up in .5 over the middle. 21.5 22 22.5 See what the pressures say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.