Scully Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) just in case there is any confusion the ultimate responsibility lies with the landowner.you may have paid for your sporting rights but it still rests with them.a farmer I know rented some buildings a few years ago on a piece of land he owned some twenty miles from his place the police raided it and found a cannabis factory.it cost him some 30k in legal fees.to clear his name.in times of trouble the first people we call to help are the police and we expect them to respond in a civil and considerate manner.well perhaps we should all give the same when they are just doing their job. I'm not following this to be honest. Why would a landowner rent property on his own land, or do you mean he rented it out? I can't see what having a cannabis factory on your land has to do with informing the police when we go shooting, but it would seem the 'first people we call to help' didn't in fact 'help' nor believe the farmer you know, but as you say, they were probably 'just doing their job', which would seem to include in this instance, assuming his guilt until he proved his innocence, at some cost. In the matter of informing the police prior to shooting, they aren't 'just doing their job' as there is no legal requirement to inform anyone. Edited October 14, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 £30k !!!! That's a lot of fees assume he must have been charged and gone to court for that sort of cost. Or did he have cherie Blair at his police interview? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not following this to be honest. Why would a landowner rent property on his own land, or do you mean he rented it out? I can't see what having a cannabis factory on your land has to do with informing the police when we go shooting, but it would seem the 'first people we call to help' didn't in fact 'help' nor believe the farmer you know, but as you say, they were probably 'just doing their job', which would seem to include in this instance, assuming his guilt until he proved his innocence, at some cost. In the matter of informing the police prior to shooting, they aren't 'just doing their job' as there is no legal requirement to inform anyone.[/quot e] Yes he rented the property out to others.the point was that even if you paid for the shooting on land the owner would still get involved and while some may not mind once or twice if it became a regular thing you might find the land withdrawn.also 30k is not a lot when there are barristers involved.you own the property you must know what is being done there.a simple phone call could save a lot of hassle that's all there is to it.there is no legal requirement as you say but in some circumstances a little common sense could pay dividends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) 30k is not a lot when there are barristers involved. So it must have gone to court, what was he charged with Section 6 (2) Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 for cultivation, Section 4 (2) Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 for production Edited October 14, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 So it must have gone to court, what was he charged with Section 6 (2) Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 for cultivation, Section 4 (2) Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 for production I do not know what the exact charges were as I am not up on all the sections.I will say that at times he is prone to exaggerate costs but I can only go by what was said at the time.it was quite a few years ago now and to be honest I don't know the details of the whole case.maybe it cost a lot because he was a bit further involved than he would have people believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well you don't hire a barrister unless you're in the dock, you're not in the dock unless you're charged. If you're charged, it is with a specific offence. Unless of course you are a total moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I hired one to deal with a planning appeal some years ago.it was not cheap.I was not in the dock as you put it.the point I was making to start with was the owner of the property is still liable for what happens on it even if rented out. Anyway I would love to stay up all night going over this but I have to be out early in the morning shooting. I prefer to actually do it rather than talk it Edited October 14, 2014 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yes he rented the property out to others.the point was that even if you paid for the shooting on land the owner would still get involved and while some may not mind once or twice if it became a regular thing you might find the land withdrawn.also 30k is not a lot when there are barristers involved.you own the property you must know what is being done there.a simple phone call could save a lot of hassle that's all there is to it.there is no legal requirement as you say but in some circumstances a little common sense could pay dividends. Fair enough, I can understand how an unlawful activity could have a detrimental effect on both the landowner and the shooter,especially if the landowner is receiving revenue from those carrying out that unlawful activity, but shooting isn't an unlawful activity (unless it's poaching) and I ALWAYS inform the landowner out of courtesy, but it is no business of the police so I wont phone them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peek-at Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 What we all need to do is apply a little common sense. If the police get a call from the public, they are duty bound to investigate. That means that a cop will be sent to make sure no offences are being committed ie poaching.........This may or may not be firearms officers. This is a waste of the shooters time AND in many cases, the police's time too As said, it may also save the landowner 'batting off' a call to them by the plod..... So I for one would rather spend a few minutes letting them know what I'm doing & where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 As I am no longer involved with the type of shooting activity being discussed here but am still a shooter consider this my ‘two pence worth’. As a shooter I am extremely reluctant to give any more ground to the authorities than is demanded by law. However, if it is reasonably anticipated that a degree of inconvenience is likely to be incurred either by yourself, the people that allow you to shoot on their land or indeed the police themselves would it not be to everyone’s advantage to pre-empt any potential issues arising by making the call? To call or not to call, this to me should be entirely at the discretion of the shooter but to arbitrarily refuse to take the common sense approach, especially if you or indeed the police have previously experienced issues with the general public involving firearms in the area that you shoot it would seem to me detrimental not only to the shooter’s own integrity but perhaps to also put a negative perspective on the shooting community as a whole :( But there again no problem then why call?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 in the past when I used to go lamping for rabbits a couple of times the police turned up.not due to public reports but because a passing patrol car saw the lamps or when we were shooting off the back of the pick up.it was not really a problem other than it normally meant the end of the shooting for the nightdue to the time wasted.however I have read on here a few times some smug posts on how the police turned out due to a report and how the shooter gave the police the run around for a little while or to tell us of the clever answers they gave as in true pw style we are not doing anything unlawfull.why is it that the most law abiding section of society (gun owners) are sometimes so anti police and seem to like confrontation.you phone your farmers and even some of the neighbouring property's yet why not save some needless problems and give a quick call into the control room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) just in case there is any confusion the ultimate responsibility lies with the landowner.you may have paid for your sporting rights but it still rests with them.a farmer I know rented some buildings a few years ago on a piece of land he owned some twenty miles from his place the police raided it and found a cannabis factory.it cost him some 30k in legal fees.to clear his name.in times of trouble the first people we call to help are the police and we expect them to respond in a civil and considerate manner.well perhaps we should all give the same when they are just doing their job. I have many mates who are policeman and I've worked with the police on and off for 33 years. I'm always 'civil and consderate' in my dealings with them, those I know and those I don't. But I will not inform them in advance that I am about to go about my lawful business, why should I? If they do turn up, I will be civil and cooperative. But if that happens, it won't be me who's wasted police time, it'll be the nugget that called them. Perhaps I'm lucky. I live in a part of the world where the police, and even most members of the public don't assume every bloke in a field with a gun is Obama bin Laden and Sadam Hussein's evil love child. Edited October 17, 2014 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I've not had the police out when shooting my self but have when shooting with someone else the cop that turned up was very good and said if we where in that area again just make a quick call to the control room and let then know took my mates phone number and a couple of rabbits. if i was somewhere that was likely to produce a call to the police or somewhere that I had had a problem with walkers etc then yes i probably would call, but as i have not even when shooting on what some people use as a foot path I've hand no problems i see no reason to waste the control rooms or my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 in the past when I used to go lamping for rabbits a couple of times the police turned up.not due to public reports but because a passing patrol car saw the lamps or when we were shooting off the back of the pick up.it was not really a problem other than it normally meant the end of the shooting for the nightdue to the time wasted.however I have read on here a few times some smug posts on how the police turned out due to a report and how the shooter gave the police the run around for a little while or to tell us of the clever answers they gave as in true pw style we are not doing anything unlawfull.why is it that the most law abiding section of society (gun owners) are sometimes so anti police and seem to like confrontation.you phone your farmers and even some of the neighbouring property's yet why not save some needless problems and give a quick call into the control room. I suspect some are just keyboard warriors. Bravado is easy with Microsoft and a San Miguel. Who does not back off the accelerator a bit when they see a police car even when they within the speed limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 in the past when I used to go lamping for rabbits a couple of times the police turned up.not due to public reports but because a passing patrol car saw the lamps or when we were shooting off the back of the pick up.it was not really a problem other than it normally meant the end of the shooting for the nightdue to the time wasted.however I have read on here a few times some smug posts on how the police turned out due to a report and how the shooter gave the police the run around for a little while or to tell us of the clever answers they gave as in true pw style we are not doing anything unlawfull.why is it that the most law abiding section of society (gun owners) are sometimes so anti police and seem to like confrontation.you phone your farmers and even some of the neighbouring property's yet why not save some needless problems and give a quick call into the control room. I live in an extremely rural part of the UK where shooting is very common, and gunshots in the night are anything but rare. I know of no shooters around here who have had any dealings with the police while out shooting (except for one fatality) nor do I know of any who inform the police prior to going out shooting, and some of them are serving police officers. Saying that, I don't know of any who don't inform the landowner. If you feel you should inform the police, then do so, it is entirely your choice, but shooters are under no legal obligation to do so. For some reason you seem incapable of accepting that some others opinions differ to yours, and appear intent on forcing their opinions to coincide with yours, and take it personally when that isn't forthcoming, at which point you seem to feel it necessary to then belittle others who don't share your opinions rather than simply accepting that not everyone sees it from your point of view. Like I've said, if you want to inform the police, then do so. If you don't, then don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I live in an extremely rural part of the UK where shooting is very common, and gunshots in the night are anything but rare. I know of no shooters around here who have had any dealings with the police while out shooting (except for one fatality) nor do I know of any who inform the police prior to going out shooting, and some of them are serving police officers. Saying that, I don't know of any who don't inform the landowner. If you feel you should inform the police, then do so, it is entirely your choice, but shooters are under no legal obligation to do so. For some reason you seem incapable of accepting that some others opinions differ to yours, and appear intent on forcing their opinions to coincide with yours, and take it personally when that isn't forthcoming, at which point you seem to feel it necessary to then belittle others who don't share your opinions rather than simply accepting that not everyone sees it from your point of view. Like I've said, if you want to inform the police, then do so. If you don't, then don't. I do not feel that I do anything differently to others on here.i have never belittled anybody as far as I know.if anyone feels I have done this to them I apologise.i tell nobody what they should do I will just say that from my own experience I was a little peeved when I was disturbed by the police at ungodly hours due to the people that used to shoot over my land.yes they phoned to let me know and yes I could tell the police that all was good.but I still didnt like being dragged out of bed to do this.this is just my own experience and I dealt with it in my own way.like you say inform them if you want or don't your choice it wont be me who gets woken.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'm rather gobsmacked at the difference of opinion on this one. Leicestershire Constabulary have a system called goingshooting. It's a very straightforward process. If you are going shooting where you think there may be the possibility of some numpty Joe public ringinging the police because they've seen someone with a gun. You ring the police first which is a specific number for this, and tell them where you are shooting. It saves a lot of work for the police (responding) and doesn't interfer with your day. What's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 What's the problem? When it morphs from being a request to a legal requirement. The precedent is set. Many shooters are happy to comply with this voluntarily, so why not make it a legal requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitfitter Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) When it morphs from being a request to a legal requirement. The precedent is set. Many shooters are happy to comply with this voluntarily, so why not make it a legal requirement?Making it a legal requirement for all would be just great for us keepers how many times a day/week would I have to call them?Pretty soon they would need a dedicated team just to handle the calls from all of us that carry a gun every day Edited to add give a thought to the shooting season and imagine if every gun on every day shot had to call in the police couldn't handle the calls Edited October 18, 2014 by Bitfitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Making it a legal requirement for all would be just great for us keepers how many times a day/week would I have to call them? Pretty soon they would need a dedicated team just to handle the calls from all of us that carry a gun every day Edited to add give a thought to the shooting season and imagine if every gun on every day shot had to call in the police couldn't handle the calls I don't think anyone is suggesting it becomes a legal requirement. All farms that I know that have a gamekeeper do not have problems as the locals all know and expect him to be around at various times as for the shoot days of course there would be no point phoning it is an organised event that is part of the everyday life of the area.I think it is more the casual lamping and shooting in the late hours that can bring reports to the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I'm rather gobsmacked at the difference of opinion on this one. Leicestershire Constabulary have a system called goingshooting. It's a very straightforward process. If you are going shooting where you think there may be the possibility of some numpty Joe public ringinging the police because they've seen someone with a gun. You ring the police first which is a specific number for this, and tell them where you are shooting. It saves a lot of work for the police (responding) and doesn't interfer with your day. What's the problem? We move around a lot when out lamping as we cover quite large areas and as such we can't give specific times for specific areas, which was what, amongst other irrelevant information, we were asked for when I tried this. I am pretty sure the person manning the phone was a civilian (as most of the police HQ staff are in Cumbria) who was possibly reading a set of instructions from a set procedure to follow, and when it was explained to her I didn't have or couldn't supply all the information she wanted she didn't know how to respond. It was anything but straightforward. It just isn't practical. We have never felt the need and have never had any problems at night, ( though a quite humorous one during the day which I have already related on here) as we always contact the landowner first. An ex-copper who runs a shoot just down the road says with a smile 'Let 'em come, they need the practice'. And he should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 We move around a lot when out lamping as we cover quite large areas and as such we can't give specific times for specific areas, which was what, amongst other irrelevant information, we were asked for when I tried this. I am pretty sure the person manning the phone was a civilian (as most of the police HQ staff are in Cumbria) who was possibly reading a set of instructions from a set procedure to follow, and when it was explained to her I didn't have or couldn't supply all the information she wanted she didn't know how to respond. It was anything but straightforward. It just isn't practical. We have never felt the need and have never had any problems at night, ( though a quite humorous one during the day which I have already related on here) as we always contact the landowner first. An ex-copper who runs a shoot just down the road says with a smile 'Let 'em come, they need the practice'. And he should know. I completly agree Scully, that is why I said if we are going shooting where some numpty Joe public may ring the police. We would not bother ringing with 95% of our farms, but the odd fields that are within sight of a modern estate, or one particular village where there is an infants school we would. In fact that particular place we try not to shoot at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) I completly agree Scully, that is why I said if we are going shooting where some numpty Joe public may ring the police. We would not bother ringing with 95% of our farms, but the odd fields that are within sight of a modern estate, or one particular village where there is an infants school we would. In fact that particular place we try not to shoot at all. I have stopped shooting near a newly built creche during the day for the same reason. It is around 100 yards across a road and a disused railway away from the boundary corner of a farm I mooch around the hedgerows with my shotgun and dog, and was formerly a derelict pub/thai restaurant. I know the owners of the creche quite well, but don't want to risk startling any of the mothers or their children by shooting so close to it so give that corner a miss during opening hours now. Edited October 18, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 How about applying common sense to each individual situation?If you're in the middle of the country you can probably walk at the side of a road with a shotgun broken over your arm without causing concern.If you're shooting in a more populated area it might be worth a quick call to notify police they could get a call from joe public.I very much doubt if a few people decide to call in then it will become law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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