Dan. Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hello everyone, I am currently going through my FAC and SGC application process. I have put down the normal callibers of .22 and .17hmr for vermin control and .223 for fox. But I have come across a problem, was looking towards putting in for 1 FAC shotgun with the supporting reason of vast quantities of short range vermin to be dispatched to which I have been told it is not a good enough reason to justify the weapon. If this is the case what would be good enough justification for an FAC shotgun? thanks again Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab1964 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I live in North Yorkshire. Last July my FAC was up for renewal and I put in for a Sec 1 Shotgun - good reason being vermin control. Short or long range not even brought up. Long story short - it was approved and I now own a Benelli Supernova that holds way more than two in the tube. Always double check "what you've been told" as you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Playing the devil's advocate, unless it's rats where arguably an air rifle would be better, perhaps they're wondering why you need two short range vermin guns particularly as one is far cheaper to run. That is provided of course you didn't mention any safety distance aspect. If you didn't, it might be worth explaining/emphasising that aspect and try again. But see above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I simply put good reason as vermin control (as with all my FAC guns) and it came back no problems. You could add winged vermin as a good reason but do you have SGC as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Ye that's what I was thinking of putting down. It does mean I have 3 FAC guns for shorter vermin control, but I suppose I could maybe put down it's for close vast amounts of moving vermin? I will have a SGC shotgun also but that will be a clay/game gun and probably just an O/U to conform Edited November 6, 2014 by Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecash Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 join BASC, and discuss the issue with them - best money you will ever spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I was once turned down for a 2nd S1 shotgun as I'd given my reason as vermin control, (rabbits basically) so phoned up to complain. FEO told me to re-apply and give my reason as 'the shooting of avian species under the terms and conditions of the wildlife and countryside act 19 something or other'. It came back within the week, granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Ye I will be putting in for a BASC membership soon I will put it down as for the above and include a few of the above reasons and also go over it in my covering letter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Playing the devil's advocate, unless it's rats where arguably an air rifle would be better, perhaps they're wondering why you need two short range vermin guns particularly as one is far cheaper to run. Not their concern. I have 6 rimfire rifles and a FAC shotgun for vermin. A shotgun is a very different beast to any rimfire (squirrels, pigeon, crows etc). A FAC shotgun should really be a formality on a FAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Ye I will be putting in for a BASC membership soon I will put it down as for the above and include a few of the above reasons and also go over it in my covering letter Do it now! If you wait and application is rejected you won't be covered! S1 as in high mag capacity? Or as in short barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Not their concern. I think WE all probably know that. See my opening phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think WE all probably know that. See my opening phrase. Not a dig at you, more for the OP's sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Not their concern. I have 6 rimfire rifles and a FAC shotgun for vermin. A shotgun is a very different beast to any rimfire (squirrels, pigeon, crows etc). A FAC shotgun should really be a formality on a FAC. How do you mean not their concern? And how do you it should really be a formality on a FAC? sorry if the questions seem stupid but I haven't sent off the application yet and I just want it to be pretty **** proof tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I just stated that I wanted the shotgun for crop protection. This was on the advice of my FEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 i asked for s1 shotgun under the grounds of high volume feather and fur pest control and clay pigeon shooting. oh, and AOLQ. No problems at all, back within 14 days and they opened up all of my conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I have been told it is not a good enough reason to justify the weapon. Just as an aside as Scully has given you your answer - Post #7, just add 'vermin between "avian" and "species", think the year was 1981 - you don't say who told you that the reason wasn't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 That's great I will just quote that then also how do you list the FAC shotgun in the caliber choices? Does it just go down as FAC shotgun or does go by another name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Just FAC shotgun.No mag' capacity listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 not knowing your job/age etc is a bit hard to say why, but it seems your asking for a lot on first application for both shotgun and firearms certs Im a full time pest controller, working for one of the big names, I applied for my shotgun cert first, then a year later my firearms, at that time I asked for the cert to be open, and also for a sec 1 shotgun, they gave me the open cert on first application due to my job, but turned me down on the sec 1 as not needed (I said it was for pigeon control) it's now been a couple of years, I put in for a variation, giving up one of my .22 rimfires, and asking for a sec 1 for squirrel control, for dray blasting (I own woodland and have permission on a further 80 plus acres) and was given it within two weeks so I would suggest, get your tickets, leave it a year, then ask again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Im a full time pest controller, working for one of the big names, I applied for my shotgun cert first, then a year later my firearms, at that time I asked for the cert to be open, and also for a sec 1 shotgun, they gave me the open cert on first application due to my job, but turned me down on the sec 1 as not needed (I said it was for pigeon control) Did they not believe you had pigeons to shoot? Did you get the refusal in writing from the firearms licensing manager? Did you challenge the refusal using your shooting organisation? Or did the FEO ask you to remove it from your application and you did without fuss? There is nothing wrong with rocking the boat if your FEO is being awkward. If you are fit to be entrusted with a SGC and a FAC the a section 1 shotgun should be a formality. Accept nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 not knowing your job/age etc is a bit hard to say why, but it seems your asking for a lot on first application for both shotgun and firearms certs Im a full time pest controller, working for one of the big names, I applied for my shotgun cert first, then a year later my firearms, at that time I asked for the cert to be open, and also for a sec 1 shotgun, they gave me the open cert on first application due to my job, but turned me down on the sec 1 as not needed (I said it was for pigeon control) it's now been a couple of years, I put in for a variation, giving up one of my .22 rimfires, and asking for a sec 1 for squirrel control, for dray blasting (I own woodland and have permission on a further 80 plus acres) and was given it within two weeks so I would suggest, get your tickets, leave it a year, then ask again, I work for the Royal Navy as a day job hence why I feel I can apply for such weapons straight off as actually I have shot 1000s of .223cf rounds prior to application. FAC shot gun is mainly for crop protection on a 210 acre permission I have and the reason I see it fit to apply is due to the density of avian vermin attacking the crops and also the high volume of short range vermin (grey squirrel and rabbit) we also get on the other permissions I have. All land owners have put down FAC shotgun on the calibers to be used section to get this point across to them I just need to wait and see what they come up with now when the receive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 I work for the Royal Navy as a day job hence why I feel I can apply for such weapons straight off as actually I have shot 1000s of .223cf rounds prior to application. Ahh, that might not work in your favour as well as you think it should. some police forces can be a little cautious in granting a FAC to those in the forces. i know devon and cornwall are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 some police forces can be a little cautious in granting a FAC to those in the forces. i know devon and cornwall are. I too have worked for the Royal Navy and am ex forces and have never experienced this. D&CC for my money have always been nothing less than fair - OK, not always the quickest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Ye they seemed to lighten the tone when I said what I currently do as my job and the experience I have with fire arms in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) i know 2 people that have been refused certain calibres by d&c. one serving and one ex. to be fair, they both had asked for .243 and one asked for .308. both flat out refused. both raised the point about being in the forces and were told that it doesnt stand for anything and that they look at serving and ex military even more closely before granting incase of PTSD and other such underlying ilnesses. personally, i can understand that way of thinking. i know that my best friend wasnt exactly in the right kind of place in his mind when he got back from afghan, and that d&c were totally justified in refusing him. dont get me wrong though dan, im not for one moment saying that i dont think your suitable for FAC. just stating what the 2 people i know were told. Edited November 10, 2014 by brett1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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