Scully Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 It's a long time since I read the books ( having outgrown a morbid fascination I once had for such things ) but if I recall, he was taken to the Nuremburg trials to show the Americans how to humanely (or neatly) hang those destined for the noose, as there is a big difference between hanging and lynching. I think he also said that in his opinion Ruth Ellis should not have hung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think the question "saint or sinner" is a little bizarre. I can't imagine many thinking people would believe he was either of those things. He was of his time, which is now history and by the laws and values of that time, he was doing a job which our legal system required. Despite the fantasies of some, those days will never come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 It's a long time since I read the books ( having outgrown a morbid fascination I once had for such things ) but if I recall, he was taken to the Nuremburg trials to show the Americans how to humanely (or neatly) hang those destined for the noose, as there is a big difference between hanging and lynching. I think he also said that in his opinion Ruth Ellis should not have hung. Hanging done properly by the long drop method will instantaneously break the neck as opposed to strangulation . The ropes were the best hemp ropes and were leather bound on one end with a welded steel ring through the rope . The rope was put through the ring and attached to the gallows . The ring on the rope was placed next to the left ear . When the condemned was dropped the ring would turn round to the front and catch under the chin and snap the head backwards and break the neck . Any other method would cause strangulation . The actual length of the drop was surprisingly short and varied from three feet to six feet ,according to how much the condemned weighed. To much drop would pull the head off . Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Isn't it a bit of a macabre subject to have an interest in anyway? What's wrong with stamp collecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 didn't realise there was a criteria, if you want me to inform you about anything regards judicial execution in GB from 1705 onwards please let me know. Is that in conjunction with heating advice ?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Isn't it a bit of a macabre subject to have an interest in anyway? What's wrong with stamp collecting? I find the serrated edge quite scary Is that in conjunction with heating advice ?...... Not for you Mr. Spoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 It's a long time since I read the books ( having outgrown a morbid fascination I once had for such things ) but if I recall, he was taken to the Nuremburg trials to show the Americans how to humanely (or neatly) hang those destined for the noose, as there is a big difference between hanging and lynching. I think he also said that in his opinion Ruth Ellis should not have hung. I think it was either the Belgians or Hungarians he taught as they were still swinging on people's legs, his book says Ruthe Ellis was no different to "any other job" I believe it was a newspaper that quoted him defending Ruth Ellis but he himself denied it in printed word and the radio interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I find the serrated edge quite scary I recommend a thimble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 pretty sure there is no Knot involved rather a brass eyelet worked into the rope,the length of drop is determined from a chart http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging2.html#tablebut the real skill came from the hangmans adjustments depending on his opinion of the man's (or womans) neck strength, Stephan Kisko is a wonderfull example of why we shouldnt, but theres a lot of reasons why maybe we should oooh to play God yippee lol there was indeed a knot his father perfected it, the ring was to stop it slipping back till the drop, our man Albert also hung innocent men timthy evans being one, and he was not the last hangman KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I recommend a thimble. I recommend a thimble. Do they come with instructions I don't want to get another stuck on my ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think it was either the Belgians or Hungarians he taught as they were still swinging on people's legs, his book says Ruthe Ellis was no different to "any other job" I believe it was a newspaper that quoted him defending Ruth Ellis but he himself denied it in printed word and the radio interview Austrians, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Never set yourself up as a bit of an expert on a given subject - PW members are always happy to disprove the delusion. :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 there was indeed a knot his father perfected it, the ring was to stop it slipping back till the drop, our man Albert also hung innocent men timthy evans being one, and he was not the last hangman KW Not quite correct . There was a braded leather slip piece that was postioned above the ring on the rope . Remember there was a black silk hood that was also attached to the rope . When the rope and the hood was placed over the head the leather slip piece was pulled down to hold the ring tight against the left cheek and jaw bone . It was the metal ring that was the important piece of equipment because it forced the head back when the rope moved from the side of the head to under the chin . Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 there was indeed a knot his father perfected it, the ring was to stop it slipping back till the drop, our man Albert also hung innocent men timthy evans being one, and he was not the last hangman KW Quite correct as regards not the last hangman, there never was one.there was no not but I do know what your referring to in regards his fathers invention, it was a black rubber ring with gators on to prevent the noose slipping back up the rope if the person jumped, his father also invented a restraint for a one armed man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Quite correct as regards not the last hangman, there never was one.there was no not but I do know what your referring to in regards his fathers invention, it was a black rubber ring with gators on to prevent the noose slipping back up the rope if the person jumped, his father also invented a restraint for a one armed man here ya go Albert executed more than 200 people under the rules of the war crimes commission after the second world war. Albert was not merely an executioner – he was regarded by many as a hero. But it was grim work. Fielding describes the family profession thus: "Just before the time of the execution, the executioner and his assistant join the ... prison officials outside the door of the condemned cell ... the executioner enters the cell and pinions the prisoner's arms behind his back, and two officers lead him to the scaffold and place him directly across the division of the trap on a spot previously marked with chalk. The assistant executioner pinions the legs, while the executioner puts a white cap over his head and fits the noose round his neck with the knot drawn tight on the left lower jaw, where it is held in position by a sliding ring. The executioner then pulls the lever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 read this and see if our man Albert was a "nice chap" http://dachaukz.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/stutthof-concentration-camp-part-910.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 here ya go Albert executed more than 200 people under the rules of the war crimes commission after the second world war. Albert was not merely an executioner – he was regarded by many as a hero. But it was grim work. Fielding describes the family profession thus: "Just before the time of the execution, the executioner and his assistant join the ... prison officials outside the door of the condemned cell ... the executioner enters the cell and pinions the prisoner's arms behind his back, and two officers lead him to the scaffold and place him directly across the division of the trap on a spot previously marked with chalk. The assistant executioner pinions the legs, while the executioner puts a white cap over his head and fits the noose round his neck with the knot drawn tight on the left lower jaw, where it is held in position by a sliding ring. The executioner then pulls the lever." An accurate discription of an execution . The witnesses of the execution would be in the execution chamber standing opposite the entrance door and facing the condemned as he was brought in . The witnesses would have been the prison governor ,the prison chief officer ,the county high sheriff,the bishop of the dioceses and the two escorting offices . It would take no longer than 30 seconds from the time the condemned ( known in prison parlance as the queer fellow ) was pinioned and dropped through the trap . He would be left to hang for 1 hour before being confirmed to be dead by the prison medical officer . He was then buried in the grounds of the prison on consecrated ground . All lawful places of execution had a grave yard . It was never allowed for an executed person to be buried outside of the prison where they were executed . Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 here ya go Albert executed more than 200 people under the rules of the war crimes commission after the second world war. Albert was not merely an executioner – he was regarded by many as a hero. But it was grim work. Fielding describes the family profession thus: "Just before the time of the execution, the executioner and his assistant join the ... prison officials outside the door of the condemned cell ... the executioner enters the cell and pinions the prisoner's arms behind his back, and two officers lead him to the scaffold and place him directly across the division of the trap on a spot previously marked with chalk. The assistant executioner pinions the legs, while the executioner puts a white cap over his head and fits the noose round his neck with the knot drawn tight on the left lower jaw, where it is held in position by a sliding ring. The executioner then pulls the lever." are you quoting from Pierrpoint,A family of executioners By Steve Fielding? if so check page 114 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) are you quoting from Pierrpoint,A family of executioners By Steve Fielding? if so check page 114 no Edited December 15, 2014 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 read this and see if our man Albert was a "nice chap" http://dachaukz.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/stutthof-concentration-camp-part-910.html I hear what your saying but im not over convinced, all the sources ans statements seem to be German, why were Germans present at an execution? it should have been witnessed by the appropriate British Military staff, I know Pierrpoint was never going to paint himself in a bad light,but theres a limit to how much of a fight you can put up, with pinions on wrists and legs and been held in place by 2 officers an assistant and then pierrpoint himself to place the noose and cap?? not impossible but unlikeley in my opinion. But then again there are 3 sides to every story your side my side and somewhere in-between the truth will be there. Saint or Sinner I'm not sure remarkable man i certainly think he was. no Its worth a read i have 3 books on the man one in his own words one by fielding and cant remember the third Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I seem to remember reading somewhere that by law executioners had to be tried for murder after each death but were always aquitted. May be wrong but its at the back of my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 can you not pick the third book up and see who wrote it Winston you did say " cant remember the third " if you got three books just pick it up and let us all know,,i would be interested to find out who it was written by cheers Evo ( the unemployed hangman ) :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 evo - behave. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 evo - behave. :lol: :lol: I had to sorry atb Evo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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