stalker58 Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't Know if any Supernova users are aware of this,myself included....But it seems they are being sold and not proofed for HP steel shot use! i.e No Fluer de Lys proof marks on the barrel,I know they are tested by Benelli to 1370 Bar,But apparently this is not HP proof test for the barrel! ...I thought this was a legal requirement in this country! Awaiting a reply from GMK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Ah! A veritable pandoras box has been opened! When this gets very complex the thing to remember is that in order to be lawfully sold by a dealer in this country a gun needs to have passed the appropriate proof test. Which all Super Novas have. They all carry the appropriate proof marks required for sale in the u.k. Nobody, however, stipulates what it has to be proofed FOR. I would suggest that you`d be better off talking to BASC about this but you`ll have to phone them yourself. As I discovered from another thread they are now too busy to answer online queries such as this one. Edited December 29, 2014 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawntredder Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 well am glad I got rid of mine worst gun I ever owned...in fact it was a disgrace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 That's news to me. I've been shooting 3.5" hp in mine for a couple of seasons now. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 My Versamax has no FDL mark , but it came with a certificate from the proof house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Hmm - my Beretta has no Fleur de Lys mark either BUT all the chokes supplied with it are all marked as steel proofed. Page 13 of the SuperNova owners manual says steel shot is fine as it is proved to 1370 bar. It doesn't differentiate between steel and HP steel, but I wouldn't expect it to. http://tinymicros.com/mediawiki/images/c/c5/Benelli_SuperNova_Owners_Manual.pdf BASC's info leaflet also shows it's fine if proved to 1320 bar http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=723. Note the difference with standard steel fine in 'most' nitro guns proved to 930 bar. Out of interest, are your chokes marked as steel proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 I am not saying that they are not safe to use with HP steel cart's....I use them in mine,but if you can use HP steel why don't they state that in the manual!..I had a Supervinci that had the FLD proof mark...I also was reading on another thread (steel cart's what you need to know) that HP steel proof tests are higher than 1370 bar! And that for a member state, which Italy is..to sell shotguns CIP regulations state...Steel proof guns must have the appropriate marks FLD...So if their gun's are steel proof why don't they mark them as so! All very confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/216441-high-performance-cartridges/page-2 This is from an earlier thread...I hope everybody involved in this thread don't mind me posting it! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 As far as I know there is really no such thing as "steel proof".......just that some guns are proofed to higher pressure levels. 3 1/2" chambered guns were only produced to accommodate the longer cartridges which were reqired to hold an adequate volume of the lighter steel shot, there is little or no difference in the construction of any gun barrel (except choke) the modern steel used to make the barrel may be different in composition?! But as in the need to lengthen a guns chambers to accommodate an adequate volume of steel shot,.... I assume these higher proof levels were merely to safely handle the extra pressure required to propel an adequate volume of the lighter steel shot at the greater velocity required for acceptable performance? The legal aspect of proof can be about the condition of the barrel/action of a gun but it is mainly about the diameter of the bore or rather any enlargement (above certain tolerances) of the bore subsequent to the bore diameter as measured when last proved. If the barrel is above this tolerance it is "out of proof".........it is not illegal to have this gun but it is illegal to sell/gift it.....unless to a RFD. Any legally held gun that is sound and in proof can be legally bought and sold, the fleur de lys stamp is not legally required to buy or sell the gun (nor to use that gun with steel shot!) lots of folk are using old standard proved guns with steel shot ( usually with eased chokes!) apparently with no issues. As someone else posted the gun manufacturer usually provides a proof certificate in the paperwork appertaining to the particular gun (identified by the serial number) which stipulates the level of proof....not that it is proved for use with "high performance steel shot" It appears some manufacturers confirm their guns are safe to use with high performance steel shot via the fleur de lys mark others via the gun paperwork or manufacturers website etc. Complicated yes! So this is just how I see it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Gamebore mammoth HP steel....Say's it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler325 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 My Versamax has no FDL mark , but it came with a certificate from the proof house. +1, mines came with a certificate aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 001.JPG Gamebore mammoth HP steel....Say's it all Does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I shoot eley lighting 3inch out my baikal no FDL mark , but manual states suitable for all cartridges steel tungsten lead copper to max of 3inch cartridges, the chokes state lead 1/2 using steel full no damage to gun or me expect from the noticeable kick only proof mark is 90mpa on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 All I am saying is....You try and get Benelli or GMK to say they are HP steel proofed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 People need to stop worrying about these proof stamps. The Benelli is proofed to 1370 Bar. That has been established. That equates to the best part of 20000 psi. Some of the fastest, hottest homeload recipes I use only go up to around 13000! Even with a measuring mistake there is room for error. Remember also that that 1370 is the proof pressure, so in reality it would take a lot more pressure to 'blow' the barrels. So I would say, carry on with the factory HP steel (or homeloads) and don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 All I am saying is....You try and get Benelli or GMK to say they are HP steel proofed But are guns actually HP steel shot proofed? Is there such a test? Or are guns just proved to a pressure deemed safe to use HP Steel cartridges through? As Motty said if the gun is proved to 1370 Bar........that is more than enough pressure to cover the use of HP Steel shot? With plenty of margin for loading error. As far as I can see generally the Fleur De Lys mark is irrelevant! It is not used by significant number of manufacturers..............so I can see it disappearing into history in the not too distant future If the guns we are using are proofed to 1370 Bar we would be better employed concentrating on choke constriction when using HP Steel cartridges rather than having a Fleur De Lys stamp on your barrel/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IEH Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 My understanding is that 1200 Bar is magnum proof level for lead. So, why would Benelli bother proving a gun to 1370 Bar (which is HP steel level proof) unless they intended from the outset that it be used, and safe, to fire HP steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi Lads...This is the reply,Word for word from GMK, To my question about HP steel proof on the Supernova! Good morning, As far as I am aware,The Supernova is only proofed for standard steel shot,and not High performance or Magnum loads..therefor It won't have the Fluer de lys stamping on it. Kind Regards Bill Bill Moore GMK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler12 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Haha, clearly GMK don't have a clue. Or they thinks it's easier to fob you off with such a response. The detailed answer to this one has been posted above already (see Stalkers link). In short, the HP STEEL shot proof in Britian consists of a high pressure burst test AND (and this is the key bit) they throw some very large steel balls down the barrel. All Benelli's are tested at the proof house in Italy to 1370bar (or so the manual says), but they do not throw the big steel balls down them. Hence why they are not stamped with the FDL. Having said that, I would not be the slightest bit concerned about putting HP steel through your Supernova mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi Lads...This is the reply,Word for word from GMK, To my question about HP steel proof on the Supernova! Good morning, As far as I am aware,The Supernova is only proofed for standard steel shot,and not High performance or Magnum loads..therefor It won't have the Fluer de lys stamping on it. Kind Regards Bill Bill Moore GMK Next question for Mr Moore..........what is the difference between a gun proofed at 1370 Bar....and a gun proofed for "High performance" Steel loads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Haha, clearly GMK don't have a clue. Or they thinks it's easier to fob you off with such a response. The detailed answer to this one has been posted above already (see Stalkers link). In short, the HP STEEL shot proof in Britian consists of a high pressure burst test AND (and this is the key bit) they throw some very large steel balls down the barrel. All Benelli's are tested at the proof house in Italy to 1370bar (or so the manual says), but they do not throw the big steel balls down them. Hence why they are not stamped with the FDL. Having said that, I would not be the slightest bit concerned about putting HP steel through your Supernova mate I am NOT....Its just I Hate being bloody lied to..When you ask your dealer...Are they HP steel proof!....Oh Yes of course they are! All the best Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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