DiddyDave Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Firstly, great forum. Full of useful information from what I've seen so far and friendly people. My issue is this.I'm applying for a variation on my FAC for a 22_250 for foxes. My FEO has told me that I will need mentoring with a larger caliber as I only have 22lr and 17hmr on my ticket so far. I don't have a problem with doing this but where do I start? I thought this a good a place as any so any information and general pointing in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Welcome to the forum. Already owning rimfires means you don't need mentoring. Did you acquire the calibre's you already have without mentoring? The same practices regarding quarry identification and backstops, fields of fire etc apply equally to those calibre's you already own as they do to centrefires. Your FEO is merely putting obstacles in your place; it's up to you how you respond. You can either find a mate who owns a centrefire calibre, who is willing to mentor you for a given period, or you can pay to do DSC1, or you can contact your shooting organisation and inform them of your FEO's instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks Scully for the reply. I did have to get a mentor and get that mentor to sign a letter saying I was "fine" in the field and I know what I'm at with safety, backstops etc. I know it's not the letter of the law and I didn't necessarily have to do so but I didn't want to ruffle his feathers and just did it anyway. I'm not really in financial position to go down the dsc route so I think I'll just have to find someone willing to help. Wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 You will need mentoring even if you have rimfires because a centrefire is a completely different tool i had to be mentored for my 22_250 then had to be mentored with 308 aswell . If i was you ring your feo and say about the one day rifle safety course for a centrefire foxing calibre see what they say 3 of my mates have got there ticketts for 22 centrefire that way recently hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ok I'll have a look into that, maybe he'll be fine with it. I'm a BASC member so maybe they'll have some information. Thanks again guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks Scully for the reply. I did have to get a mentor and get that mentor to sign a letter saying I was "fine" in the field and I know what I'm at with safety, backstops etc. I know it's not the letter of the law and I didn't necessarily have to do so but I didn't want to ruffle his feathers and just did it anyway. I'm not really in financial position to go down the dsc route so I think I'll just have to find someone willing to help. Wish me luck. Good luck. You will need mentoring even if you have rimfires because a centrefire is a completely different tool i had to be mentored for my 22_250 then had to be mentored with 308 aswell . If i was you ring your feo and say about the one day rifle safety course for a centrefire foxing calibre see what they say 3 of my mates have got there ticketts for 22 centrefire that way recently hope this helps With all respect, you didn't need to be mentored for .308 after being mentored for 22-250 at all. Did you contact your shooting organisation or simply comply with your FEO's instructions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yes i did and was told because it was 308 therefore deer legal i either had to do a dsc1 or be with a mentor so considering a mentor will teach you so much more than a level 1 i decided on that route (this was 9 years ago now ) but i never needed to be mentored for my 338 lap mag to shoot targets or take it to hungary shooting boar which was a massive headache because its classed as a military round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I do understand the reasoning behind it but it's frustrating when your told to do it. Especially as I don't know anyone who has a centerfire for a start. I'm not going down the deer shooting route myself as I have no need to do so, just foxes for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ask them to send you out their requirements for a mentoring condition in writing. Explain that you have spoken to your shooting organisation, and they have advised you to request this. Pretty good chance they back down ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foosa Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Ask them to send you out their requirements for a mentoring condition in writing. Explain that you have spoken to your shooting organisation, and they have advised you to request this. Pretty good chance they back down ... +1Ask what the standard required of each element to be learnt by yourself is and details of what each element in the mentoring programme will involve, also if they have a list of approved mentors who can teach you correctly the difference between being safe with a rimfire and being safe with a centre fire? Last time I was asked to be a mentor I rang my firearms department and asked them what I was supposed teach this unsafe person they are willing to give a certificate to but are not sure if this person is actually safe to have it, and what standards they had to reach before being deemed safe? Guess what? They couldn't answer because they don't know! They don't know because it's not written in the home office licensing guidelines they are supposed to follow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 They seem to keep tripping themselves up with this mentoring thing. I had to get mentoring from someone else with an FAC, but no formal qualifications for instructing or training was ever questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Firstly, great forum. Full of useful information from what I've seen so far and friendly people. My issue is this.I'm applying for a variation on my FAC for a 22_250 for foxes. My FEO has told me that I will need mentoring with a larger caliber as I only have 22lr and 17hmr on my ticket so far. I don't have a problem with doing this but where do I start? I thought this a good a place as any so any information and general pointing in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Where do you live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Oxfordshire. Thames valley area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I had no experience with firearms when I applied for my fac so it made sence to gain some experience with firearms before being granted. Don't ge me wrong my field craft etc is excellent from growing up in the countryside and shooting for farmers with me airgun. So the mentor really was just ti get a few rounds under my belt and for them to see that I wasn't a complete plum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I've been asked to mentor people before (obvious choice as a shoot instructor rifle as well shotgun) the FEO always get a bit confused when I ask for the Key Learning Points I have insure the person fully understands. If they can't give them I suggest they get a set from BASC etc most don't and some drop the requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 What I really don't want is to end up with is a mentor condition on my license too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Ask them to send you out their requirements for a mentoring condition in writing. Explain that you have spoken to your shooting organisation, and they have advised you to request this. Pretty good chance they back down ... That's good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 What I really don't want is to end up with is a mentor condition on my license too. The FEO is a very odd breed in deed!! I live half a mile if that from my friend who I shoot with!! He applied for his FAC about 6 months prior to me, he was told to be mentored and then had a mentoring condition put on his license. I applied for mine, .17HMR and .243, I was asked also to be mentored but then received me FAC with no mentoring conditions applied....think it's just the luck of the draw and what mood the FEO is in on the day....good luck.....I'm in Oxfordshire too, West, if you fancy a shoot one day?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 +1 Ask what the standard required of each element to be learnt by yourself is and details of what each element in the mentoring programme will involve, also if they have a list of approved mentors who can teach you correctly the difference between being safe with a rimfire and being safe with a centre fire? Last time I was asked to be a mentor I rang my firearms department and asked them what I was supposed teach this unsafe person they are willing to give a certificate to but are not sure if this person is actually safe to have it, and what standards they had to reach before being deemed safe? Guess what? They couldn't answer because they don't know! They don't know because it's not written in the home office licensing guidelines they are supposed to follow! This pretty much sums up the joke of it all, as far as I'm aware there is no structured list of things that need to be accomplished in order to have passed the mentoring process. Just get a mate to say yeah he's fine. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I mentor a friend's son for deer. Sussex have an 'interesting' approach to deer. On first application, they will grant .22 or .17 without conditions (provided you have a reason to possess etc). However, for full bore deer (he has .308) he was required to 'prove competent to shoot deer'. So, along comes me as mentor, covering safety & completing stalk reports etc. He will also undertake DSC1. Sussex will NOT grant .308 for deer, just with the DSC1 as it does not make you competent to kill an animal safely (no culls on the DSC, onlt theory and targets). So, they don't insist on DSC, nor a mentor. They do insist that someone shooting deer is competent to do so, which is within the powers of the Chief Constable. You can kick and scream, (he did!), but they won't budge or grant. He contacted BASC when he was first refused and they stated the Chief is within his rights to ensure competency prior to letting people fire rounds at deer. The chie is NOT insisting on mentoring or DSC, but both help prove competency!! I admire his cunning, actually. If you have no one who can act as mentor, it must be a right pain. B06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The FEO is a very odd breed in deed!! I live half a mile if that from my friend who I shoot with!! He applied for his FAC about 6 months prior to me, he was told to be mentored and then had a mentoring condition put on his license. I applied for mine, .17HMR and .243, I was asked also to be mentored but then received me FAC with no mentoring conditions applied....think it's just the luck of the draw and what mood the FEO is in on the day....good luck.....I'm in Oxfordshire too, West, if you fancy a shoot one day?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yeh it's a strange thing that there's no single set standard and that it's so different from county to county. Yeh I'm fine with a shoot one day, always nice to meet another shooter. I'm fortunate enough to have a fair bit of time off with my job so I'm sure we can arrange something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Yes i did and was told because it was 308 therefore deer legal i either had to do a dsc1 or be with a mentor so considering a mentor will teach you so much more than a level 1 i decided on that route (this was 9 years ago now ) but i never needed to be mentored for my 338 lap mag to shoot targets or take it to hungary shooting boar which was a massive headache because its classed as a military round Your FEO was giving you the runaround simply because he was allowed to. There is no requirement to undergo mentoring, full stop, but it is a condition a licensing authority can impose if it chooses to for a first time applicant. For a FEO to suggest someone needs mentoring for each subsequent calibre is purely vindictive and no shooting organisation worth it's salt would entertain the idea. FEO's can and will walk all over an applicant if they're allowed to. Edited January 16, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foosa Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I mentor a friend's son for deer. Sussex have an 'interesting' approach to deer. On first application, they will grant .22 or .17 without conditions (provided you have a reason to possess etc). However, for full bore deer (he has .308) he was required to 'prove competent to shoot deer'. So, along comes me as mentor, covering safety & completing stalk reports etc. He will also undertake DSC1. Sussex will NOT grant .308 for deer, just with the DSC1 as it does not make you competent to kill an animal safely (no culls on the DSC, onlt theory and targets). So, they don't insist on DSC, nor a mentor. They do insist that someone shooting deer is competent to do so, which is within the powers of the Chief Constable. You can kick and scream, (he did!), but they won't budge or grant. He contacted BASC when he was first refused and they stated the Chief is within his rights to ensure competency prior to letting people fire rounds at deer. The chie is NOT insisting on mentoring or DSC, but both help prove competency!! I admire his cunning, actually. If you have no one who can act as mentor, it must be a right pain. B06 I don't understand this, the chief constable insists someone is competant before being allowed to fire live rounds at deer, he will grant .22 or .17 without conditions, should he not be insisting competency for shooting fox, rabbit or other vermin? I'd like to know if he's granting AOLQ on 22 centre fire tickets? Nothing stopping the holder of such a ticket going after munties, CWD, or even a trip to Scotland on the roe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyDave Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think it's just the fact he wants me to gain a little experience with the larger caliber before applying. I'm not going for a deer round so I'm not going to do a dsc1 because it's not worth it. It's more a letter of competency than actually mentoring hes after. I'll find a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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