spanielchris Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I have a 4 year ESS. I've worked her the last two seasons beating. This season when we go into the woods & long cover she just seems to work for her self & not me. She runs way ahead & takes no notice to the wistle. When I work her in open fields she's alot better. I'm just asking for a few tips/pointers to try and stop her doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Train nothing but retrieving with her from now until the next season, no hunting up, no free running and don't run her in a beating line again. There's no certainty you'll cure her of the bad habits you've lead her into but you might be able to salvage her as a gundog if you stay well away from any hunting up. Edited January 19, 2015 by lee-kinsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 She's self rewarding when running ahead and is confident in doing so as the reward is there for her. Let's look at it objectively, open fields she can see there may be nothing ahead so is happy to work close in what's probably a nice pattern. In the woods she's got ahead of you and figured out that all the birds are infront, the further she gets the more she'll find. On your part you need to get out after her when she's on the way out. Chastising on the way back means nothing, difficult when beating but you've got to get through the cover to her. That should address the immediate problem;to tackle the cause you need to show her all the exciting things areally close to you. Work her up through some light cover, periodically slipping a few dummies or birds to your side when she's not looking and let her retrieve these. She should over a period of time work closer in to you. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to reign her back in a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanielchris Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 She's self rewarding when running ahead and is confident in doing so as the reward is there for her. Let's look at it objectively, open fields she can see there may be nothing ahead so is happy to work close in what's probably a nice pattern. In the woods she's got ahead of you and figured out that all the birds are infront, the further she gets the more she'll find. On your part you need to get out after her when she's on the way out. Chastising on the way back means nothing, difficult when beating but you've got to get through the cover to her. That should address the immediate problem;to tackle the cause you need to show her all the exciting things areally close to you. Work her up through some light cover, periodically slipping a few dummies or birds to your side when she's not looking and let her retrieve these. She should over a period of time work closer in to you. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to reign her back in a bit. Thank you for that. Most helpful! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Hope you solve your problem You've had good advice All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Train nothing but retrieving with her from now until the next season, no hunting up, no free running and don't run her in a beating line again. There's no certainty you'll cure her of the bad habits you've lead her into but you might be able to salvage her as a gundog if you stay well away from any hunting up. fine if you want a dog to pickup but not much good to have one to go beating. Simple answer with beating is you've lots of work to do after the season with reigning her in, its not impossible and its that time of year lots of people have trouble as the dogs have started to think they know best. I know mine has been getting a little similar and did last year, I'm having to stay on top of her and keep her a lot closer than usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanielchris Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 fine if you want a dog to pickup but not much good to have one to go beating. Simple answer with beating is you've lots of work to do after the season with reigning her in, its not impossible and its that time of year lots of people have trouble as the dogs have started to think they know best. I know mine has been getting a little similar and did last year, I'm having to stay on top of her and keep her a lot closer than usual. I was kinda thinking the same as you, glad you commented. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpaulc Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I've had the same both last year and this year too. My ESS seems to go a bit more freelance later in the season, as I rekon she is gaining confidence and learning that I've less control in thick woods or maize. She only goes maybe 30yds or so and will come back or stop but this isn't good enough when there are 50 birds only 10yrds ahead. I've combatted this by keeping her much tighter in these environments which i know is not a fix but keeps me happier (and the keeper). And to fix i use cover that has been worked clear already and work her pattern VERY close dropping high reward dummies or dead birds right at my feet and give embarrassing amounts of praise so she is the happiest dog in the world to have found the bird. I'll be doing this all summer now (not with the same dead bird) along with all the other tightening up stuff. Good luck, don't give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Mine is the same after a season of beating....... 4 weeks on the long lead changing direction alot seems to do the trick for my dog.... Hope you get it sorted Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) fine if you want a dog to pickup but not much good to have one to go beating. Simple answer with beating is you've lots of work to do after the season with reigning her in, its not impossible and its that time of year lots of people have trouble as the dogs have started to think they know best. I know mine has been getting a little similar and did last year, I'm having to stay on top of her and keep her a lot closer than usual. Any dog will hunt and alot of beating dogs aren't trained. It takes training to handle a dog and handling is most commonly done in retrieving drills and the dog is also 4 years old so chances are she knows the difference between hunting up barren ground, hunting up gamey ground where game has already been flushed and hunting up an area that is full of game so making it very difficult if not impossible to get accurate scenario based quartering done. The op has a problem with the dog working for herself and no him. A dog can't retrieve without a good working relationship with the handler therefore ecouraging the dog to work as a team. Edited January 20, 2015 by lee-kinsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Did you train her yourself to begin with? What's her recall like when she's hunting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Rabbit pen would help. A few visits would be well worth it unless your keeper will let you dog the pens once season is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Any dog will hunt and alot of beating dogs aren't trained. It takes training to handle a dog and handling is most commonly done in retrieving drills and the dog is also 4 years old so chances are she knows the difference between hunting up barren ground, hunting up gamey ground where game has already been flushed and hunting up an area that is full of game so making it very difficult if not impossible to get accurate scenario based quartering done. The op has a problem with the dog working for herself and no him. A dog can't retrieve without a good working relationship with the handler therefore ecouraging the dog to work as a team. There is a big difference between dogs you beat with and those just used for retrieving. Increasingly it seems people take their dogs out shooting as part of training rather than train to shoot with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 There is a big difference between dogs you beat with and those just used for retrieving. Increasingly it seems people take their dogs out shooting as part of training rather than train to shoot with. Totally agree. We seem to get more and more beaters who turn up and rather than take notice of the beating line or anything else that they should be, they are intent on working their dog as if they were on their own little training sessions. Most of them make useless beaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 We get it with picker uppers, two dogs only work one at a time, reluctant to send on runners and more working at getting them ready for trialling than actually doing what they are there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Too busy looking for that extra special retrieve rather that getting on with the job at hand. The best ones are the ones you can hear at the end of the day boasting about this retrieve or that one when the good pickers up did all the work and aren't looking for praise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlander Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) It sounds like you just need to do some close work during the summer keeping in contact with her and getting her to concentrate on you at all times when working in thick cover, come this end of the season I find I have to work harder at keeping my ess's mind on what I want her to do rather than what she thinks she needs to be doing. Outlander Edited January 22, 2015 by Outlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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