PeaceFrog Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hiya fellow shooters, I've been reading posts on here since I started clay pigeon shooting and it's been very informative and useful to me as a beginner so firstly, thank you! I recently purchased a Benelli semi and I enjoy shooting it but it had problems cycling 24gr loads, so I thought today I'd try 28gr (Lyvale Express English Sporters) and it cycled without any faults at all. However every now and then I noticed that after pulling the trigger there was a flash of fire thrown out of both the extraction port and the muzzle, of quite a fair size. Even more concerning, it did not do this every time. I remember shooting a 44 magnum revolver in the states years ago which had quite a flash but it was different in shape and was consistent every time I pulled the trigger. My U/O does not do this either, which concerns me more. So is something up with my gun or the cartridges, do I have anything to worry about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have owned various makes of semi auto shotguns, and each one of them has, more than once, produced a flash from the extraction port. Nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Same here I have had several semis and have had the same happen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Absolutely normal. After the shot charge and wad have left the barrel, there is still a column of burning powder and gas following behind. This is still exerting a ( rapidly falling) pressure. The bolt will remain locked until the pressure has fallen to a safe level, the gas operated unlocking mechanism engenders a delay, allowing the bolt to open roughly in time with this pressure drop. However, the bolt will open while there is still a decent pressure within the barrel and some hot gas will escape via the ejection port, the gas at the muzzle will abruptly slow down allowing aerobic combustion. It won't happen with an over and under as the mechanism remains locked for long after the gas has dissipated. Back in the Seventies, there was a brand of cheap cartridges made in the USSR- Baikal- the subject of previous posts (!) shooting at the Belfry ( yes, the Golf Club; used to have a little clay shoot in the early Seventies) at dusk with these cartridges was positively frightening. A mate had an old Breda auto and it was like a flame thrower, an enormous flash at muzzle and breech, often hardly noticed by the shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceFrog Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Oh, good to know . Came as a bit of a shock because it didn't do this with the 24gr carts yet did it at least a few times within 50 shots today and I've never really watched anyone use a semi auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceFrog Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Absolutely normal. After the shot charge and wad have left the barrel, there is still a column of burning powder and gas following behind. This is still exerting a ( rapidly falling) pressure. The bolt will remain locked until the pressure has fallen to a safe level, the gas operated unlocking mechanism engenders a delay, allowing the bolt to open roughly in time with this pressure drop. However, the bolt will open while there is still a decent pressure within the barrel and some hot gas will escape via the ejection port, the gas at the muzzle will abruptly slow down allowing aerobic combustion. It won't happen with an over and under as the mechanism remains locked for long after the gas has dissipated. Back in the Seventies, there was a brand of cheap cartridges made in the USSR- Baikal- the subject of previous posts (!) shooting at the Belfry ( yes, the Golf Club; used to have a little clay shoot in the early Seventies) at dusk with these cartridges was positively frightening. A mate had an old Breda auto and it was like a flame thrower, an enormous flash at muzzle and breech, often hardly noticed by the shooter. Thanks for the extra info DrBob, is it exactly the same in semi autos that don't use a gas operated system, like in the Beneli Inertia system? Hahah those Russian carts sound like a laugh, where can I get some? haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 PeaceFrog Yeah, I've seen all types of semi autos light up at both ends, from Browning Twelvettes and Auto-5's in the Seventies to modern Berettas and Benellis. The Baikal cartridges were cheap as chips, fifty pence for ten, and came in a metal box like a big sardine can complete with a soldered strip and a big key. I think the box held two hundred, in boxes of ten. Roll turnover closure, "felt" wads, reputed to be compressed newspaper, and an enormous charge of flake powder. Winchester loads used Olin ball powder, only a small charge ( 18 grains ?) and a one piece plastic wad, these things used a huge quantity of powder and crude wads, you could tell who was using them half a mile away! If I can source some original loads, I'll put 'em through a semi auto and video it for PW. Hehe.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceFrog Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 If I can source some original loads, I'll put 'em through a semi auto and video it for PW. Hehe.......... Do it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think I've still got a couple somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolkngood Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Baikal Record's...........those were the days. A different colour case for each shot size. I'm still trying to clean the residue out of my barrels 30years on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesP Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 It happens fairly frequently in winter with my 20 bore Beretta Urika - mainly using Hull cartridges. It hasn't happened yet in my Outlander using Armusa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinchesterDave Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Pretty normal mate. Photo of it happening on my sx3, brother took it..complete flook but looked cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckman91 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The hatsan I used to have flashed at both end regularly and was very noticeable at dusk when the light was fading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceFrog Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 These Baikal carts are intriguing, I've found a few other threads about them on here. Thanks for confirming my gun isn't dangerous dudes, and cool picture Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 All my autos do it. Perfectly normal. It's more than enough to remind you to wear glasses when it does it on an overcast day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I would love to see someone shoot them at dusc any one got any for sale around sheffield I'll try them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think the americans re invented the baikal carts and called them dragons breath http://youtu.be/A162aCDluNU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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