kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Camera people I need some advice, either on a new lens, or some help with settings. I'm trying to get some decent images for my daughters riding school, thing is I can't use flash while the kids are riding, the ponies will go bonkers. Its indoors, and no matter what I tried the images were so poor, very dark, problem was a slower shutter speed left me with blurred pics, a high ISO didn't make enough difference, and I'd be worried about the quality anyway. Any ideas? I'm using a standard canon 35-70 (ish, I cant remember) lens at the minute. Edited February 19, 2015 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Try a prime lens, 35mm or 50mm on a DSLR, with an aperture of f1.8. Zoom lens' are great but for an aperture of better than about f4.5 you're looking at big money. With a prime lens you can crop the image later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Which camera? High ISO isn't a big deal on more modern DSLR's - and they can typically be cleaned up in post processing. If you don't use lightroom or photoshop, try a program called Noiseware - there is a free 'community edition' which does a decent job of cleaning up high-iso noise. As has been said, lenses with a higher aperature are expensive, but if it is a one-off, you can hire lenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 You have a consumer grade variable aperture lens. Indoors, that is going to be less than useful as you are seeing, short of using a 5d3 with insane ISO. Indoor horse arenas are not usually very bright so you're just not getting enough light into the camera. If you have to stick with that lens, then bump the ISO as high as you can. If you have a new-ish consumer grade camera, that will mean 3200, maybe 6400. Open the aperture as wide as possible, which will mean 5.6 on the long end I believe. That will give you the highest shutter speed possible for that lighting. If you're in the 1/30 or faster bracket, then you have a chance. You will need to use continuous servo autofocus and pan with the rider. The background will be blurred, but if you can keep the focus point on the rider and pan at the same speed then you can get there. The faster the shutter speed, the more crisp the picture will be. Also try to time the shot so that the horse/rider are nearly stopped in their motion if you can, for instance at the top of a jump or when they land. As Chris says, a prime is really where you need to be, but even then it is tough. Consider the difference between 70mm f 5.6 on your current camera and 85 mm 1.8 is about 3 stops, so 8x the shutter speed available for the same ISO setting and you're far better off. If you can get ISO 3200, f5.6, 1/30 with your current setup, you can go to ISO 3200, F2.0, 1/240 with the prime which will give you very crisp pictures. Also, having the prime will give your autofocus system more light to work with and it will be faster/more responsive. If you can, post one of your pictures here with the ISO/SS/Aperture/Camera details of what was used and we can tell you how close you can get. thanks, rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 as above try an borrow a 50mm lens with 1.8 or 1.4 turn up iso as much as possible and also go plus 2 stops if needed,i take all my pics at rock shows without flash. using a canon 550,but just upgraded to canon 70d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks people, lots of useful answers, I don't understand a lot of it.... I've ordered a 50mm F1.8 lens to go onto a EOS 450d to see if that helps, I was planning on getting a prime lens anyway. So, another Q, with it being prime, and I won't be able to get too close, I should be able to crop/zoom the images if needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twitchynik Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Not getting close enough with a prime isn't always the problem. Sometimes you can't get far enough away. All depends on what you're shooting. Try shooting at 50mm with your existing lens(es) and see how the framing looks. You may well indeed be able to crop to good affect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Just a thought but you might be better shooting in RAW. With RAW there is so much more "flexibility" in Photoshop or the likes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 The canon 50mm f1.8 is a great little lens for the money. The case is plastic, and it's not the fastest to focus, but that is OK considering what you pay for it. Probably the best value Canon lens. Remember too that on a crop sensor camera like yours it will have a field of view equivalent of 80mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I shoot all my pics in almost near darkness as I shoot concerts and gigs. Don't be afraid to bump up the ISO, most modern stuff will get really high before it introduces noise. As always it is all about glass and the one you have purchased should be OK for the job. I shoot a 35mm prime 1.4 and a 50-150 2.8 on my crop camera. If you can learn to crop in the lens and not in post processing it will make you a better photographer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Remember too that on a crop sensor camera like yours it will have a field of view equivalent of 80mm. What does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 http://digital-photography-school.com/crop-factor-explained/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 http://digital-photography-school.com/crop-factor-explained/ OK, that makes sense in words, thanks. What does it mean to me in real life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 OK, that makes sense in words, thanks. What does it mean to me in real life? Not a lot, what you see in the viewfinder is what will be recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Sorry not read all the replies. Bottom line is you are trying to take shots in a dark environment (maybe not to you but it is to the sensor). You have three choices as I see it. 1. Get the ISO up as high as you can without noise destroying the image. 2. Get your lens wide open i.e. if its F4, use that if its f5.6 that's what you use. If 1 & 2 combined doesn't work then you are only left by getting faster glass I am afraid! That will cost you. Don't want to burst your bubble but the 50mm 1.8 you have purchased whilst allowing a lot more light in than your f5.6, will probably allow you less blurry shots by getting a faster shutter speed, BUT will be blurry due to the very narrow depth of field!!! I have the mk1 version of this lens and whilst in the right hands its great (certainly from a value for money point of view) but wide open then cropped, which you will do as you are probably too far away for 50mm lens, it will still be mediocre!!! For a situation like yours I wouldn't go past a 70-200 f2.8 with image stabilization. But that's going to cost you big bucks ;-) If you cant afford option 3. then you go with fastest shutter speed your glass will allow and bump up the ISO to the max of where you think the shot is acceptable quality. Better to have a noisy in focus sharp image than a low noisy blurry image. Well in my opinion anyway ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks for all the replies, it appears this maybe an issue unless I borrow, steal or buy expensive glass. No bubble burst m3vert, I'd planned on buying it anyway as I don't have a prime lens, I'm sure it'll come in useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ok, I've had a look at the indoor ménage and I reckon I can get around the perimetre walkway and maybe get within 12ft of the riders and ponies, if I can get enough light would this be an acceptable distance? I know it's a tough question, as you're not there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Would the Canon image stabilzer lens not help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I shot a nativity play in a dark setting using a prime (50mm) and set it to auto iso and it came out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Its a cracking wee bit of glass and for the cash takes a bit of beating ;-) From 12feet away with the 50mm you will get a shot, it depends if you are hoping to get the full horse in and some of the surrounding area, if so then yes fine. If you want to capture your daughters facial expression while riding the horse with just her and the horses head and saddle, then probably a bit far away with that lens. Hope that helps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Its a cracking wee bit of glass and for the cash takes a bit of beating ;-) From 12feet away with the 50mm you will get a shot, it depends if you are hoping to get the full horse in and some of the surrounding area, if so then yes fine. If you want to capture your daughters facial expression while riding the horse with just her and the horses head and saddle, then probably a bit far away with that lens. Hope that helps? That's great advice, it's more full horse shots as they are jumping, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I just put my 50/1.8 on my EOS-M - I had forgotten what a great lens this is! Sharp as a tack - but it doesn't have USM, thus is slow to focus. May be a bit challenging for action shots, but not impossible. Also, don't discount non Canon glass. Sigma make sone fantastic compatible lenses. Yes, Canon L glass is second to none, and over time you will get your money back on resale (or close to it - a bit like buying a good shotgun), but Sigma glass can certainly hold its own. One of my favourite lenses is a Sigma 20/f1.8 prime. Edited February 19, 2015 by aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 with low light any camera shake will be more noticeable too so it does not cost a penny to hold the camera right or prop it or yourself against a wall or railing. every little helps. get the place to upgrade to led lighting, it got me a extra 2 stops over the old floodlights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Would the Canon image stabilzer lens not help? Not a lot in this case. Image stabilization is good for low light but static subjects. If the subject is moving, then you need a faster shuter speed. IS will help for panning shots but not freezing motion. Sorry not read all the replies. Bottom line is you are trying to take shots in a dark environment (maybe not to you but it is to the sensor). You have three choices as I see it. 1. Get the ISO up as high as you can without noise destroying the image. 2. Get your lens wide open i.e. if its F4, use that if its f5.6 that's what you use. If 1 & 2 combined doesn't work then you are only left by getting faster glass I am afraid! That will cost you. Don't want to burst your bubble but the 50mm 1.8 you have purchased whilst allowing a lot more light in than your f5.6, will probably allow you less blurry shots by getting a faster shutter speed, BUT will be blurry due to the very narrow depth of field!!! I have the mk1 version of this lens and whilst in the right hands its great (certainly from a value for money point of view) but wide open then cropped, which you will do as you are probably too far away for 50mm lens, it will still be mediocre!!! For a situation like yours I wouldn't go past a 70-200 f2.8 with image stabilization. But that's going to cost you big bucks ;-) If you cant afford option 3. then you go with fastest shutter speed your glass will allow and bump up the ISO to the max of where you think the shot is acceptable quality. Better to have a noisy in focus sharp image than a low noisy blurry image. Well in my opinion anyway ;-) Generally large apertures will do that if you are close to the subject, however kyska is going to be far away enough to get a whole horse in the frame with a 50mm lens. At f2 there should be plenty depth of field. Thanks for all the replies, it appears this maybe an issue unless I borrow, steal or buy expensive glass. No bubble burst m3vert, I'd planned on buying it anyway as I don't have a prime lens, I'm sure it'll come in useful! You should be in pretty good shape with the nifty fifty. The 450d isn't a high ISO monster as it is a couple generations old, but i would probably start at ISO 1600 and f2 to see what shutter speed you can get. If you are over 1/200 then i might bump the ISO down a bit. Thanks Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Generally large apertures will do that if you are close to the subject, however kyska is going to be far away enough to get a whole horse in the frame with a 50mm lens. At f2 there should be plenty depth of field. Really depends on if its a side on shot of his daughter on the horse or front on shot! Either way there will only be approx. 1.2ft or around 15inches in focus at 12feet. side on it will be fine, front on no chance unless its one wee horse ;-) Presuming that is that he wants his daughter and the horse in focus. Also If the horse is moving the 50mm not being USM will be slow enough to focus that he is unlikely to get a super sharp photo of his daughter face. IMHO. Also if the distance shortens to even 8 feet he is down to a DOF of only around 6inches. Edited to say, I just seen Kyska say it was jumping, thus moving target, non USM will struggle a little in this situation. I may be wrong as I have the mki metal body version which is non USM, maybe the new ones are?? Edited February 20, 2015 by m3vert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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