Cartridge reloading - a few questions

[cpaulc]

Hi all,

Just beginning to think about reloading for my 20 guage. I have of course read all there is online, with lots of useful posts from our PW massive and further afield too. I have amassed a few questions for those kind gents/ladies to help me with so i can begin to look in the right places:

• Tools for the job: I was hoping there would be a set of hand tools that i could use to good effect, but it seems that these are more expensive and more faff than buying a Lee Load-All set up for 20g Am i right in this assumption? (i appreciate there are better loading set-ups out there but i'd like to give it a go before big spends + an accurate set of scales is needed to test the bushings)
• Data: This gives way to the next few questions too: all data is linked to specific hulls, primers, powders, wads and loads i know. But which is the data truly based on, i would have thought the powder?
• Data Sourcing: I know there are several books on the subject which help with the process and give some data too, but are there any new(ish) books that quote currently available powders / primers etc? Where else (apart from the PW helpful crew) would you suggest looking for data. For example, the Vectan A0 easily available data : http://www.nobelsport.it/public/pages/ENG/schedapol.asp?ProdottoID=559&FamigliaID=0 is ok, but doesn't give much variety.
• Powders, Primers & Hulls: what are most of you reloaders using? it seems to me that clay & game have a good variety on their website, as do some other websites too - just putting the feelers out on what your thoughts would be for easiest brands to use?

For those who will possibly ask, in reality i'm looking to load only a couple of different cartridges: 24g clay load (7/8s), 28g pigeon (6s), and possibly a 30g game (5/6s).

And finally, if anyone is reloading in the Warwickshire / Stratford area and wouldn't mind a beer and discussion i'd be keen.

 

Many thanks

 

Cpaulc

[fenboy]

Load data is dependant on everything , hulls, wads , primers,shot weight and powder all make a difference .

General rule of thumb is not to swap any components .

Load data can be found on some powder manufactures websites also places like claygame and FES.

[turbo33]

Lee loadall is the cheap way to go, plus some scales. You can get the Loadall secong hand for about 40 quid, or new from Henry Kranks, or FES for 55 ish. Scales, I bought some from clay and game for 20 something pounds. The same drug dealers ones are on flea bay for a few quid!!

 

Data is about all the components, not just the powder. Powders burn at diferent rates, primers the same, and the weight of the shot will cause a build up of pressure to a greater or lesser degree. Plastic wads hold the gases better than fibre, and a crimp will hold the pressure more than a roll turn over. So ignore any of those at your peril.!!

 

FES has some data, and sells all the components. You can buy data sheets online from Clay and Game.

 

I buy new ready primed hulls from fes. Its just not worth the faffing around. If a shell has fired fibre, it stretches widthways and can't be used again. In any case, used shells stretch, and until you know what to expect and how to deal with it, your crimps, consistency, etc, will be out of the window, and so therefore will be the cart performance!

 

There is load data on the FES site for what you want to do, plus there are a couple of very experienced loaders on here who may pass on some knowledge!

 

And yes, if you can get someone to show your the ropes, it will save you a trip to the funny farm

[Underdog]

I have a Lee loader copy I made myself. Don't want much if your interested.

U.

[10gaugewannabee]

i used to do a massive amount of reloading.

 

whats happening is reloader over load.

 

the reason why there are thousands of differnt recipes for reloading is because there is thousands of diiferent mixes you can use, thats all

 

but when you break it down it becomes a lot lot easier and simpler

 

so we want some shells, say you buy the new primed ones from clay and game. these will then have the 200 different primer recipes writen off so you are down from 1,000 to 800recipes

 

you want to load 7/8 so we are down from 800 to 400 recipes, shell case size and shell case design cross section plus primer plus loaded shot and fibre or plastic wads

this then leaves us say three powders to use and say 90 ( 30 each ) load data sets

 

say you want powder type B, thats 30 recipes from 1,000 we started from. those 30 are split up to fast or slow actions and we are talking fps and a difference of say 300 each way which for normal people is not much to worry about realy, digweeds worry about single feet, i worry about hitting the barn side twice in a row !

 

so from the 30 we have left 2-4

 

shell type + load + powder + primers + wadding ( fibre or plastic) and these depend on the loads used steel or lead or any thing else, small cups large cups, thin fibre pads or thick fibre pads and so one

 

we will eventually work it down to , 2 or 3 load data sets, from there one in its personal prefference to which one you use

 

i used to have 30 pet loads,

 

loads were plit into the different forms of shooting i did

 

slugs

geese

wildfowling

clays

rough walked

and so on.

from there you add the shells,

 

now heres the important bit, all my shells came from the clay ground so they were at the cheeper end of the price new range. I would expect to reuse 2-5 times

 

i once went to a big comp shot thinking again i was going to empty the bins for them, and found out, just how many other people also reload, lol, we were all most fighting for the chance to empty the bins for them, hahahahaha

 

the bigger the shoot the better the cases used, in my world any way

 

any way

back home with say 1,000 shels its sorting time

 

first up we do into brands, normally most people use the ground supplied shells so you have say 4 tubs of four sorts , one tub of expensives and one tub of dross

 

from the main two or four tubs you chop a hull long ways in half. photo it and record it. as it shows the base construction for the design of the hulls for the set of data you can use for those specifica shells, from the design alone you will go from 1,000 to 50

 

from the half section you then look to see how many shells you have and what quants are needed to reload that amount. now i then used to order enough to reload 80% of that batch

 

 

does that help,

 

also a lee load all is a brilliant piece of kit for £50 ish new and well worth it.

yes we all want MEC 9000 with electro move , but its a lot of money to spend if you dont like it

Edited February 20, 2015 by 10gaugewannabee

[Guest cookoff013]

@Mr under dog,

now that is cool !

 

i used to do a massive amount of reloading.

 

whats happening is reloader over load.

 

the reason why there are thousands of differnt recipes for reloading is because there is thousands of diiferent mixes you can use, thats all

 

but when you break it down it becomes a lot lot easier and simpler

 

so we want some shells, say you buy the new primed ones from clay and game. these will then have the 200 different primer recipes writen off so you are down from 1,000 to 800recipes

 

you want to load 7/8 so we are down from 800 to 400 recipes, shell case size and shell case design cross section plus primer plus loaded shot and fibre or plastic wads

this then leaves us say three powders to use and say 90 ( 30 each ) load data sets

 

say you want powder type B, thats 30 recipes from 1,000 we started from. those 30 are split up to fast or slow actions and we are talking fps and a difference of say 300 each way which for normal people is not much to worry about realy, digweeds worry about single feet, i worry about hitting the barn side twice in a row !

 

so from the 30 we have left 2-4

 

shell type + load + powder + primers + wadding ( fibre or plastic) and these depend on the loads used steel or lead or any thing else, small cups large cups, thin fibre pads or thick fibre pads and so one

 

we will eventually work it down to , 2 or 3 load data sets, from there one in its personal prefference to which one you use

 

i used to have 30 pet loads,

 

loads were plit into the different forms of shooting i did

 

slugs

geese

wildfowling

clays

rough walked

and so on.

from there you add the shells,

 

now heres the important bit, all my shells came from the clay ground so they were at the cheeper end of the price new range. I would expect to reuse 2-5 times

 

i once went to a big comp shot thinking again i was going to empty the bins for them, and found out, just how many other people also reload, lol, we were all most fighting for the chance to empty the bins for them, hahahahaha

 

the bigger the shoot the better the cases used, in my world any way

 

any way

back home with say 1,000 shels its sorting time

 

first up we do into brands, normally most people use the ground supplied shells so you have say 4 tubs of four sorts , one tub of expensives and one tub of dross

 

from the main two or four tubs you chop a hull long ways in half. photo it and record it. as it shows the base construction for the design of the hulls for the set of data you can use for those specifica shells, from the design alone you will go from 1,000 to 50

 

from the half section you then look to see how many shells you have and what quants are needed to reload that amount. now i then used to order enough to reload 80% of that batch

 

 

does that help,

 

also a lee load all is a brilliant piece of kit for £50 ish new and well worth it.

yes we all want MEC 9000 with electro move , but its a lot of money to spend if you dont like it

 

that just about sums it up.

 

if i were you i would contact someone who reloads the 28gram loads / in 20gauge, just get that right, because by switching the shotsize it`ll do for game and clay.

then you can start sourcing other loads.... switching out shotsizes is what reloaders have an advantage of, you can even reload a 24g #6 and have a blast. a friend of mine did that, he came to mine, and we banged out 50, 24g 1500fps #6 for pigeons, hes not a great shot but he seriously did the business. big grin. i`m not doubting at all that the 20 can do the same.

 

as for the 30gram loads, try to avoid, as usually most reloaders have 36g 32g /28g /24g lead bushings only. as you are a reloader you can load up 32g its only £5 more per 1000 shells.

 

i went to mec straight away, i have had 3 mecs and i still own 2. the PW presses are better but they come with a pricetag to boot. i already had the bushings and bars so i continued with mec. (and i love my mec.)

 

i`m going to point out that the loads by folkestone engineering supplies " *thanks to Andy for the 20gauge loads. ". Andy is a member on here, and looking at his reloads, they look good, good healthy pressures, great speeds, whats not to like?

[cpaulc]

Hi all, some fab advice so far!

So it seems a good place to start (after the kit) would be to buy a couple of data sets off clay & game or stick with one of the ones from FES, and begin hunting for some higher quality used shells then work forward from there.

 

The FES data, only notes '70mm cases', but isnt specific about the type. i'm assuming it does matter as it will be about the size of the end metal cap and plastic quality?

 

Please feel free to keep adding.

Many thanks !

Edited February 20, 2015 by cpaulc

[Guest cookoff013]

Hi all, some fab advice so far!

So it seems a good place to start (after the kit) would be to buy a couple of data sets off clay & game or stick with one of the ones from FES, and begin hunting for some higher quality used shells then work forward from there.

 

The FES data, only notes '70mm cases', but isnt specific about the type. i'm assuming it does matter as it will be about the size of the end metal cap and plastic quality?

 

Please feel free to keep adding.

Many thanks !

 

forget the datasets from C&G you have quality data from FES>

nearly all european cases have the same internal volume so 70mm cases mean nearly all the same. i`m betting you`ll not come across an old hull.

[10gaugewannabee]

i gopt my old load date sheets from two places, one was free and thats the powder manafacturers and the second one i paid for to buy the shotgun shell reloading manual, which is great value and i kept with it

[Salop Matt]

If there is any one in the shropshire area reloading 20bore I am happy to keep my emptys for you if you want ?

 

ATB

 

Matt

[MAB1954]

You have some great replies on here the only thing I would add is get the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual 5th Edition. It provides an overview of the whole loading process, down side is its all American data which can be hard to find components over here, but loads of useful information. Its what I read before I started loading.

[storm in a teacup]

Underdog,

 

that loader looks awesome, do you have any plans/how to you are willing to share so that one could be built in 10 or 12g?

[Underdog]

Underdog,

 

that loader looks awesome, do you have any plans/how to you are willing to share so that one could be built in 10 or 12g?

Sorry sir. No plans. Made it at work when it was quiet years ago. Downloaded 20g chamber dims and went from there.

 

U.

[storm in a teacup]

Oh well I will have to get the tape measure out, I cant justify buying a loader as I am only looking to make a handful of cartridges a year.

 

thanks anyway

[Old farrier]

Sorry sir. No plans. Made it at work when it was quiet years ago. Downloaded 20g chamber dims and went from there.

 

 

U.

My compliments on your skill building that underdog

Very nice

 

Op there's som good advice here I won't add as there all more experienced loaders than me

 

Best of luck and enjoy

Of

[Uncle Albert]

Beware! The black art of reloading is very addictive. If you decide to take the leap into it then you have to decide what and why you want to reload. I use the Lee Load-All and it is a very good machine for the money but it does have limitations. It can produce very good quality shells that out-perform factory ones on the pattern plate. Be careful of using the American powders as they are twice the price of European ones. Vectan AS is £36 per Kilo whereas Red Dot is £36 per half kilo.

 

You can get all components by mail order but the powder and primers will cost about £30 postage due to being Hazmat. All components are set for a particular load and cannot be swapped so get them from the same supplier. I've been down that route so take it from me don't buy from different suppliers. You won't save anything and you'll be left with something you can't use. Have a chat with those at Clay and Game or Folkestone Engineering Supplies. Check their prices. I use Folkestone Engineering and John is most helpful and very economical.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[cpaulc]

Wow, had a load of super useful advice and info. I think for my first go I'll stick the FES website data and supplies. I'll likely be using either Eley CT or VIP game casese, does the length of the metal base play a big part, as the FES data only states 70mm case.

[Guest cookoff013]

No the "brass" height is just a bling thing. Its actually steel.

Its the internal volume that's impotent.

 

I use the cheapest new hulls I can get.

Edited February 22, 2015 by cookoff013

[fenboy]

No the "brass" height is just a bling thing. Its actually steel.

Its the internal volume that's impotent.

 

I use the cheapest new hulls I can get.

 

Something playing on your mind cookoff

[Guest cookoff013]

Its this damn nexus. Correcting everything!

At least its not bread based.

[sitsinhedges]

Wow, had a load of super useful advice and info. I think for my first go I'll stick the FES website data and supplies. I'll likely be using either Eley CT or VIP game casese, does the length of the metal base play a big part, as the FES data only states 70mm case.

[sitsinhedges]

 

Wow, had a load of super useful advice and info. I think for my first go I'll stick the FES website data and supplies. I'll likely be using either Eley CT or VIP game casese, does the length of the metal base play a big part, as the FES data only states 70mm case.

 

 

The height of the brass doesn't affect the internal volume but very high brass can cause problems with resizing and is best avoided. Eley CT 20gauge shells are one of my favourites to reload although the brass height can vary and the 21gram ones though marked as 70mm are only 67mm and so not any use for a 70mm recipe. Unless you like very high pressures avoid.

[Guest cookoff013]

There are some great shot deals at moment. Fes and claygame.

Just been checking up.

[10gaugewannabee]

 

Wow, had a load of super useful advice and info. I think for my first go I'll stick the FES website data and supplies. I'll likely be using either Eley CT or VIP game casese, does the length of the metal base play a big part, as the FES data only states 70mm case.

 

the external is of very little interest to us, what really counts is its cross sectional size as that makes a great differnce to us. i all ways chop the first hull of a load of new sorts in half long ways so i can make sure i am looking at the right reloading hull design data sets

[Underdog]

Its this damn nexus. Correcting everything!

At least its not bread based.

It remembered your last communications with your doctor lol

U :-)