wymberley Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Good post Scully. I'll raise you - superb. What we could do with is a central organisation with an electronic media device/system in place so that any adverse or simply disinformation type comments/articles could be immediately refuted and any efforts worthy of note - conservation, charity, etc etc widely disseminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) It all boils down. To the majority of the British public only hear and see the bad not all the good that shooting does the charity shoots etc it only takes one idiot and we're all mass assassin sad but true WE ALL GET TARED with the same brush throu the actions of the few who shouldn't have fac or svc and many illegal firearms it is easier to go after the legally owned guns then the local drug dealer's stash Edited March 6, 2015 by chris1961 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister22 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 what Germany has no poachers or firearms crime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 J Edwards, at the risk of sounding a bit patronising I think that your approach is a wee bit naive. Accurate and understated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Interesting series of posts. I too saw the Sky article and thought the shooting org response was wooden and unimpressive. Fair do's to concentrate on the discipline and safety aspects and the respect for firearms but it needed rather more positive projection in my book. By chance I was recently listening to a Radio 4 program on gangs in big cities. There are apparently some 260 gangs countrywide with maybe 4K gang members. They involve children as young as 11 carrying drugs and firearms for the gang 'elders'. They use sexual violence and prostitution as weapons as well as knives and guns - the latter naturally illegal. One ex gang member interviewed who had been shot said he always carried a gun and he had 2. Since the 'elders' are more likely to be stopped and searched, the youngest members carry drugs for them and their weapons. Weapons are therefore stashed and collected by youngsters and delivered to those who 'need' them. How nice it would be if, instead of trying to suggest lawful ownership of firearms by approved and vetted youngsters is contrary to 'good moral practice', they compared the number with the estimated number of illegally held guns which are used by 15-20 year olds in the commission of crimes, let alone knife crime statistics. It is a mad and bad world where those who obey the law receive less understanding than those who, solely because of a disadvantaged upbringing it seems, are capable of being forgiven their choice of an illegal, immoral and thoroughly self-indulgent lifestyle based on big money and a warped sense of 'respect'. - init. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 It's sad but true, but when I was at school 5 years ago, shooting as a hobby and pastime wasn't held in high regard, and I would imagine that it is even worse now. Me living in the countryside meant I was brought up with guns, but there was a general attitude with "city kids" and teachers that gun owners were "psychos", reinforced by incidents such as the shootings in America, and the Derrick Bird incident at the time. As a legal gun-owner, you always seem to feel on the losing side. Funny old world innit and how times change. When I went to school in the1950's, I, and several other boys for that matter, used to tie our shotgun on the bikes crossbar with a bit of bailer twine and cycle to school in the hope of potting a rabbit on the way. No one batted an eyelid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 jimmydean - totally agree. Whilst the media and the very odd shooter look for more hoops of fire for law abiding citizens to jump through, they almost totally ignore illegal firearms. It's almost as if they have given up on them, but think it would be fun to persecute the rest of us. Bizarrely, some shooters agree with them. You couldn't make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 jimmydean - totally agree. Whilst the media and the very odd shooter look for more hoops of fire for law abiding citizens to jump through, they almost totally ignore illegal firearms. It's almost as if they have given up on them, but think it would be fun to persecute the rest of us. Bizarrely, some shooters agree with them. You couldn't make it up. Don't you think that is the same with everything? No matter what it is there is always someone crying out for more legislation. Like in Scotland just now mandatory dog micro chipping has just been approved with the intention of improving dog welfare, yet we blithely ignore puppy farms and irresponsible breeding and instead target the people who are responsible, take their dogs to the vet and so are easiest to police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 grrclark - sadly, another post which is accurate. I can understand antis - not fully - but I don't understand the shooting zealots who start agreeing with them and even asking for more restrictions. I do wonder whether they are genuine shooters at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Don't you think that is the same with everything? No matter what it is there is always someone crying out for more legislation. Like in Scotland just now mandatory dog micro chipping has just been approved with the intention of improving dog welfare, yet we blithely ignore puppy farms and irresponsible breeding and instead target the people who are responsible, take their dogs to the vet and so are easiest to police. I wonder why too. If you try and look into the future with this 'nanny' view, life seems to me to become less bearable as its so closely controlled. Opportunities for crime seem to mushroom with new technology and yet 'easy' laws and controls seem to suggest someone is 'in control'. Actually life becomes more uncontrollable and what we need to do (perhaps) is concentrate upon 'people' and make them fit for society and not legislate for every errant possibility which then affects everyone else. Give people freedom with responsibility and make sanctions far more severe to ensure the willing and law-abiding get the benefit they deserve. Perhaps this is just a 'wish' and not really practical - shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Don't you think that is the same with everything? No matter what it is there is always someone crying out for more legislation. Like in Scotland just now mandatory dog micro chipping has just been approved with the intention of improving dog welfare, yet we blithely ignore puppy farms and irresponsible breeding and instead target the people who are responsible, take their dogs to the vet and so are easiest to police. The points you make are a regular cause of my irritation and one of the reasons my OH gets annoyed at me for shouting at the telly. Politicians always find it so much more convenient to legislate against the law abiding rather than enforce existing laws or exert effort in finding solutions to repeated crime. The knife laws are a prime example of this; the politicians have been seen to 'do something' to placate the media and public opinion, while knifings and stabbings occur unabated; criminals continue to carry their knives as before, and the law abiding who use knives on a regular basis for totally legitimate purposes have to think twice before leaving the house. Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 mr Edwards, I,m sorry but I totally disagree with your comments sir,,why cant a person who has a criminal record hold a licence my father had a criminal conviction,,yes one, because my mother bought two tyres of a guy for his car so he could earn cash to keep a roof over his families head and keep his job,,are you saying he should not of been allowed a shotgun , rimfire, or hmr, even a pistol because he made a mistake of judgement,,,,he never ever was a liar or thief or for that matter a criminal,,even though convicted,, he took the rap for my mother so they Both didn,t get charged which was the police advice sorry mate but you are obviously a model citizen whom has obviously had everything done for him,,,your response is beyond reason sir Good response with people like this we don't need anymore enemies do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Gordon, Jimmy & Scully, we are all of a like mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I wonder why too. If you try and look into the future with this 'nanny' view, life seems to me to become less bearable as its so closely controlled. Opportunities for crime seem to mushroom with new technology and yet 'easy' laws and controls seem to suggest someone is 'in control'. Actually life becomes more uncontrollable and what we need to do (perhaps) is concentrate upon 'people' and make them fit for society and not legislate for every errant possibility which then affects everyone else. Give people freedom with responsibility and make sanctions far more severe to ensure the willing and law-abiding get the benefit they deserve. Perhaps this is just a 'wish' and not really practical - shame. Excellent post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Gordon, Jimmy & Scully, we are all of a like mind. I'd suggest a 'group hug' but it would be better if we could increase the number involved. Regards guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Actually, are we in danger of taking a leaf out of the antis' book? We have a tradition of courtesy and etiquette developed over many, many decades. Judging by the - was nearly going to say vitriol but will stop a tad short - comments aimed at one young member who had the temerity to offer an opinion - how can you have a debate if everyone is in total agreement in every single aspect of a given topic, we could well be on the verge of adopting the antis' ways of intolerance, inconsideration and any other 'in', 'un' and 'ill' one can think of in addition to appalling manners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver90owner Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 No mention of the legal/criminal/social attitude/etc, etc of any infantry entrants - or any military recruit for that matter. Fifty years ago conscription was the norm. Every male did their duty, unless they had a good reason not to. Imagine now, conscripting from the youth of today..... And here they are moaning about a very small minority who want to learn properly and are the most unlikely element of society to go out using a weapon in an illegal fashion. Dad's shotguns (and rifle later, I think) stood in the corner, behind the kitchen door, in the hall. We never ever interfered with them. Gramps used to take us with him when shooting rabbits, from about the age of four or five. It was a way of life. Even the German prisoner of war working on the farm (where mum lived) carried a shotgun to shoot the meat for the pot. While the real world of today is vey different from those days, one wonders whether some of these people, who are against any firearm use or knowledge, have ever stepped outside into the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Actually, are we in danger of taking a leaf out of the antis' book? We have a tradition of courtesy and etiquette developed over many, many decades. Judging by the - was nearly going to say vitriol but will stop a tad short - comments aimed at one young member who had the temerity to offer an opinion - how can you have a debate if everyone is in total agreement in every single aspect of a given topic, we could well be on the verge of adopting the antis' ways of intolerance, inconsideration and any other 'in', 'un' and 'ill' one can think of in addition to appalling manners. A very good point - opposing opinions need to be considered and responded to with a better argument, not simply 'rubbished' because the views expressed are contrary to our own. Whatever it costs, I agree good manners and 'integrity' are key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 wymberley - I don't mind debate, but I didn't see much in the way of a cogent argument, merely a wish to increase our burden. If the poster could come up with a legitimate argument - fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchiet123 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 It's sad but true, but when I was at school 5 years ago, shooting as a hobby and pastime wasn't held in high regard, and I would imagine that it is even worse now. Me living in the countryside meant I was brought up with guns, but there was a general attitude with "city kids" and teachers that gun owners were "psychos", reinforced by incidents such as the shootings in America, and the Derrick Bird incident at the time. As a legal gun-owner, you always seem to feel on the losing side. It was a time when you were considered "weird" if you shot as a hobby, but "normal" if you messed about at school, womanised, and at the weekend you got hammered on the school fields from a bottle of super-strength cider, and smoked something you shouldn't have smoked. Very strange society. Personally, I think that the only way that you can change public opinion is by making licencing much more thorough. I'm an advocate of the German licencing system, which requires a spotless criminal record, written exam, verbal exam, shooting exam, and quarry identification exam. Because the German public know that only the cream of the crop can get a licence, they actually trust their system, and trust that licence holders know what they're doing. Public attitude is trusting, rather than fearful towards licence holders. Its still that way mate trust me. i was the weird one because i didnt smoke weed and get smashed every weekend, if at all. and i am still in university so this is the current situation! Oh well, luckily i dont cvare what anyone else thinks and will continue to shoot lawfully whatever anyone says about me and im sure a lot of people would feel the same way! Being responsible and safety conscious lies hand in hand with growing up around guns in my experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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