UKIP - merged threads

[hawkfanz]

so why aren,t we building ships and trains,and why did the people that built tornado the steam train have to go to east Germany for the boiler,cos they put it out to tender and no one in uk could build it.so ok we build cars big deal,

[ack-ack]

It might be a gamble, but UKIP are worth a punt, if only to make my vote heard.

Some gamble!! I wouldn't bet on those odds but I will bet that loads of kippers bottle it at the ballot box. Well, those have any sense left anyway.

[felly100]

Some gamble!! I wouldn't bet on those odds but I will bet that loads of kippers bottle it at the ballot box. Well, those have any sense left anyway.

You'll be getting the proverbial dog muck through the letterbox now.

[overandunder2012]

Some gamble!! I wouldn't bet on those odds but I will bet that loads of kippers bottle it at the ballot box. Well, those have any sense left anyway.

agreed many will tick the tory box i suspect when the time comes as the torys are the only people really offering the referendum and could deliver it and many believe they saved the economy.making them the safer bet

Edited April 6, 2015 by overandunder2012

[AVB]

so why aren,t we building ships and trains,and why did the people that built tornado the steam train have to go to east Germany for the boiler,cos they put it out to tender and no one in uk could build it.so ok we build cars big deal,

Because it's a big wide world out there, British labour is expensive compared to many countries. The Koreans cornered the market for shipbuilding years ago. Anyway what does it matter who owns a company. A British company may well manufacture all of its goods overseas (Dyson for example) yet a 'foreign' company may well manufacture goods here (Nissan for example).

 

As for trains well we do make them here. Hitachi have a manufacturing plant in Nothumberland. So we build cars and trains, but perhaps not ships.

 

You sound like that sketch out of The Life of Brian. "what have the Romans ever done for us".

[kdubya]

Apparently we make more cars than Italy. So not strictly true that we can't make anything anymore is it.

We might make them but the money goes straight out of the country, land rover jag, Indian owned, ford US ,Bentley German , Rolls Royce, German , Vauxhall US owned, Nissan Japs Toyota Japs, etc etc, I work for a large Electricity supply company, the money (profit) goes straight out of the country, soon the Chinese will be the major players in our energy supply ? where is the investment and return to THIS country then!we are simply now cash cows for overseas investors.

 

New Nuclear build will be at the behest of the Chinese but for them to invest the are insisting that they will provide the plant all built in china including the pressure vessels as we shut down the only plant in this country capable of building them might as well change my name now to who flung dung as we are well and truly in it thanks to our shortsighted quick buck now beggar the future tactics of our established political traitorous elite.

 

So yes we may still have the capability but we have no industry of our own thanks to the old Grantham witch

 

 

 

KW

Edited April 6, 2015 by kdubya

[grrclark]

so why aren,t we building ships and trains,and why did the people that built tornado the steam train have to go to east Germany for the boiler,cos they put it out to tender and no one in uk could build it.so ok we build cars big deal,

We do make ships. Britain has one of the largest defence manufacturing industries in the world, we are a global leader in pharmaceuticals, we have a brilliant space technology industry, our creative sector is growing to be one of the biggest in the world, our development in ultra high technology science is world leading and our sub sea and submersibles technology industry is also world class.

 

Although many wish to knock it our financial and banking services sector is what every other country aspires to achieve.

 

Sure we don't have the same level of heavy industry as we once did, but don't be so quick to put Britain down, it really still is Great.

 

Instead of looking for reasons to bash Britain why don't you try and find reasons to applaud what we do.

[Dave-G]

Some gamble!! I wouldn't bet on those odds but I will bet that loads of kippers bottle it at the ballot box. Well, those have any sense left anyway.

 

 

I rather hope that as most people who have voted before approach the polling stations, they remember that any other time they voted, it was sheepishly for people who didn't listen to the main concerns of the populace.

 

I've been a lifelong Tory voter but it's UKIP for me this time: At least Nigel WANTS us out and to be able to determine our own rules and regulations.

[AVB]

We might make them but the money goes straight out of the country, land rover jag, Indian owned, ford US ,Bentley German , Rolls Royce, German , Vauxhall US owned, Nissan Japs Toyota Japs, etc etc, I work for a large Electricity supply company, the money (profit) goes straight out of the country, soon the Chinese will be the major players in our energy supply ? where is the investment and return to THIS country then!we are simply now cash cows for overseas investors.

 

New Nuclear build will be at the behest of the Chinese but for them to invest the are insisting that they will provide the plant all built in china including the pressure vessels as we shut down the only plant in this country capable of building them might as well change my name now to who flung dung as we are well and truly in it thanks to our shortsighted quick buck now beggar the future tactics of our established political traitorous elite.

 

So yes we may still have the capability but we have no industry of our own thanks to the old Grantham witch

 

 

 

KW

I get what you are trying to say but I would counter that with two examples. JLR - Indian owned as you state - but have invested heavily in new plant in the UK. Are now producing the best cars they have ever done (do you remember jags and Land Rovers of the 70's?). And there is Dyson. A British company yet manufactures all of its goods in Malaysia. Who is a better company for Britain? The nasty Indian owned JLR or the great British owned Dyson?

 

And as for profits. That gets returned to the Shareholders in the form of dividends. Again nothing to do with being British. You can own shares regardless of the country of domicile.

 

There is a lot of emotion over this sort of stuff but in reality it is just emotion.

 

Now your argument could be over state vs private ownership which is probably more valid BUT Governments have never been good at running companies have they.

[poontang]

We do make ships. Britain has one of the largest defence manufacturing industries in the world, we are a global leader in pharmaceuticals, we have a brilliant space technology industry, our creative sector is growing to be one of the biggest in the world, our development in ultra high technology science is world leading and our sub sea and submersibles technology industry is also world class.

 

Although many wish to knock it our financial and banking services sector is what every other country aspires to achieve.

 

 

 

 

Which begs the question, why do we have to be tied into a European Union which inhibits our ability to trade with the rest of the world?

 

For what it's worth I totally agree with your original comments.

[Boromir]

agreed many will tick the tory box i suspect when the time comes as the torys are the only people really offering the referendum and could deliver it and many believe they saved the economy.making them the safer bet

They may offer a referendum but will it be a fair referendum? as has been on the news recently they want 16 year olds to vote and anybody who has just moved here a vote, why you think we didnt get a referendum for this term in office? Cant negotiate a deal with the EU so DC is just plainly lying again.

[Gordon R]

Dave G - I agree.

 

I can't grasp why the odd person ( and I do mean odd) thinks UKIP voters will bottle it at the polling station. It is just a stupid remark, with no basis.

As for some saying that UKIP voters have no sense - why don't they cast their own vote and let others do the same. Perhaps they would like us to follow their lead - bunch of sheep.

[ack-ack]

Dave G - I agree.

 

I can't grasp why the odd person ( and I do mean odd) thinks UKIP voters will bottle it at the polling station.

 

lol:

Because i think most of you are full of ####. Thats why.

[overandunder2012]

They may offer a referendum but will it be a fair referendum? as has been on the news recently they want 16 year olds to vote and anybody who has just moved here a vote, why you think we didnt get a referendum for this term in office? Cant negotiate a deal with the EU so DC is just plainly lying again.

not much will be fair with the torys it never is so its bound to be fixed , but thats never stopped people voting for them before

Edited April 6, 2015 by overandunder2012

[AVB]

They may offer a referendum but will it be a fair referendum? as has been on the news recently they want 16 year olds to vote and anybody who has just moved here a vote, why you think we didnt get a referendum for this term in office? Cant negotiate a deal with the EU so DC is just plainly lying again.

 

Do you have a link for this article? I do not believe you are correct. I thinks it's the Lib Dems who want votes for 16 year olds. Happy to stand corrected if proven.

[keg]

We might make them but the money goes straight out of the country, land rover jag, Indian owned, ford US ,Bentley German , Rolls Royce, German , Vauxhall US owned, Nissan Japs Toyota Japs, etc etc, I work for a large Electricity supply company, the money (profit) goes straight out of the country, soon the Chinese will be the major players in our energy supply ? where is the investment and return to THIS country then!we are simply now cash cows for overseas investors.

 

New Nuclear build will be at the behest of the Chinese but for them to invest the are insisting that they will provide the plant all built in china including the pressure vessels as we shut down the only plant in this country capable of building them might as well change my name now to who flung dung as we are well and truly in it thanks to our shortsighted quick buck now beggar the future tactics of our established political traitorous elite.

 

So yes we may still have the capability but we have no industry of our own thanks to the old Grantham witch

 

 

 

KW

You trot the same old anti Thatcher stuff out every time.The rot started under that wonderful champagne socialist Tony Ben ( or Viscount Stansgate as was) who nationalised everything which took away any will to succeed.

 

We were uncompetitive for many years due to high wages demanded by unions. The same unions that brought down 3 governments and would have tried on the 4th had Maggie not stood up to them.

 

The only constant is change, if you don't change you are extinct like the dinosaurs.some of which are still around....

 

We lead the world in quite a few areas as Grr has already mentioned. In S Yorks where most of the family still live, millions has been invested in the areas but a small minority do not want change, they want the old days back again.

[grrclark]

We might make them but the money goes straight out of the country, land rover jag, Indian owned, ford US ,Bentley German , Rolls Royce, German , Vauxhall US owned, Nissan Japs Toyota Japs, etc etc, I work for a large Electricity supply company, the money (profit) goes straight out of the country, soon the Chinese will be the major players in our energy supply ? where is the investment and return to THIS country then!we are simply now cash cows for overseas investors.

 

New Nuclear build will be at the behest of the Chinese but for them to invest the are insisting that they will provide the plant all built in china including the pressure vessels as we shut down the only plant in this country capable of building them might as well change my name now to who flung dung as we are well and truly in it thanks to our shortsighted quick buck now beggar the future tactics of our established political traitorous elite.

 

So yes we may still have the capability but we have no industry of our own thanks to the old Grantham witch

 

KW

KW I agree with a lot of what you say, even some of your more controversial posts I can see where you are coming from, but the real big difference between us is that I am progressive.

 

I really don't mind your partisanism and desire to retain some of the Great British values that you think are being eroded, in fact I salute you for some of that, but what I have issue with is your desire to lay the blame at someone else's door.

 

The reason British heavy industry declined was not the fault of Thatcher, it was the British attitude of entitlement, we are Great Britain don't you know. The attitude of British workers that still prevails that we shouldn't have to work hard to keep our place, that employers should shower us with favour, that business and commerce should bend to the needs of the employees and not the customer.

 

Our industry absolutely stank in so many ways, the unions hog tied empolymers with no cognisance to what that meant in commercial reality, we invited the world to take us over.

 

British industry improved when we adopted Japanese methods to manufacture and we adopted an American approach to customer service. Britain got fat and happy and forgot the need to keep challenging.

 

The reason our most successful industries now are all innovative is because they can't stand still, Britain led the world in innovation and invention then stood still and got a big shock when the rest of the world copied our style and then beat us playing our own game.

 

We are brilliant innovators and still can be, but as long as we have that sense of self entitlement because of what we were we will never take advantage.

 

The reason I passionately and fundamentally disagree with policy of Labour or SNP or any socialist leaning party is they do us a massive disservice in trying to help us achieve our potential.

 

All UKIP are doing just now us playing to that self serving bias, it's all the fault of Europe, well it's not, it's our fault for taking our eye off the ball, it's our fault for delivering rotten quality, it's our fault for believing that we deserve success without earning it, it's our fault for hanging on the coat tails of former success by brilliant and progressive thinkers and not carrying on their hard work.

 

Britain sleep walked into the industrial decline of the 70's and 80's and we nobody to blame but ourselves. A country that earns and works for success is one with a hungry workforce with ambition and desire to achieve something new. The major countries of the west all suffer from the same malaise and self serving bias and they are all going backwards.

 

Don't lay the blame outside our doors for that, instead admire the foundations of success that countries like China have built, after all they just copied what we did in the industrial revolution.

 

Britain can achieve brilliance in the digital revolution, but it won't be by mourning the decline of boiler makers or shipwrights, it will be by taking the challenge on and deciding to be the very best.

 

I would personally look forward at what could be achieved instead of looking wistfully backwards at what was.

Edited April 6, 2015 by grrclark

[grrclark]

Which begs the question, why do we have to be tied into a European Union which inhibits our ability to trade with the rest of the world?

 

For what it's worth I totally agree with your original comments.

I am not a fan of the European state and wish I could give you better answer, I am genuinely torn on the issue.

 

If we could wind the watch backwards then I would desire different choices to be taken, but not sure how easy it is to untangle the mess now.

 

I want to see a referendum and an honest debate.

[AVB]

KW I agree with a lot of what you say, even some of your more controversial posts I can see where you are coming from, but the real big difference between us is that I am progressive.

I really don't mind your partisanism and desire to retain some of the Great British values that you think are being eroded, in fact I salute you for some of that, but what I have issue with is your desire to lay the blame at someone else's door.

The reason British heavy industry declined was not the fault of Thatcher, it was the British attitude of entitlement, we are Great Britain don't you know. The attitude of British workers that still prevails that we shouldn't have to work hard to keep our place, that employers should shower us with favour, that business and commerce should bend to the needs of the employees and not the customer.

Our industry absolutely stank in so many ways, the unions hog tied empolymers with no cognisance to what that meant in commercial reality, we invited the world to take us over.

British industry improved when we adopted Japanese methods to manufacture and we adopted an American approach to customer service. Britain got fat and happy and forgot the need to keep challenging.

The reason our most successful industries now are all innovative is because they can't stand still, Britain led the world in innovation and invention then stood still and got a big shock when the rest of the world copied our style and then beat us playing our own game.

We are brilliant innovators and still can be, but as long as we have that sense of self entitlement because of what we were we will never take advantage.

The reason I passionately and fundamentally disagree with policy of Labour or SNP or any socialist leaning party is they do us a massive disservice in trying to help us achieve our potential.

All UKIP are doing just now us playing to that self serving bias, it's all the fault of Europe, well it's not, it's our fault for taking our eye off the ball, it's our fault for delivering rotten quality, it's our fault for believing that we deserve success without earning it, it's our fault for hanging on the coat tails of former success by brilliant and progressive thinkers and not carrying on their void work.

Britain sleep walked into the industrial decline of the 70's and 80's and we nobody to blame but ourselves. A country that earns and works for success is one with a hungry workforce with ambition and desire to achieve something new. The major countries of the west all suffer from the same malaise and self serving bias and they are all going backwards.

Don't lay the blame outside our doors for that, instead admire the foundations of success that countries like China have built, after all they just copied what we did in the industrial revolution.

Britain can achieve brilliance in the digital revolution, but it won't be by mourning the decline of boiler makers or shipwrights, it will be by taking the challenge on and deciding to be the very best.

I would personally look forward at what could be achieved instead of looking wistfully backwards at what was.

This is, IMHO, one of the best posts ever on PW. (Not the funniest though)

[Boromir]

Do you have a link for this article? I do not believe you are correct. I thinks it's the Lib Dems who want votes for 16 year olds. Happy to stand corrected if proven.

It was the lib dems that said it but they are basically the same(Its why many voters going to SNP/Ukip for change). If the tories win and do put referendum through The Libs will have a say on it as grrrclark said in previous post it would have to be passed through parliament and in the past DC has said he will do everything he can to keep the UK in the EU. We are being taken for a ride by the Cons and sheepishly you follow them.

[keg]

This is, IMHO, one of the best posts ever on PW. (Not the funniest though)

+1 GrrClark always posts sense.

[keg]

I am not a fan of the European state and wish I could give you better answer, I am genuinely torn on the issue.

 

If we could wind the watch backwards then I would desire different choices to be taken, but not sure how easy it is to untangle the mess now.

 

I want to see a referendum and an honest debate.

Interestingly enough, as part of the easter tidy up, we are sorting a load of books etc and i found one from around the time of the vote for EEC as was and many at the time said it was a step towards a back door political union. The press at the time said the public were apathetic but the turnout surprised many.

[AVB]

It was the lib dems that said it but they are basically the same(Its why many voters going to SNP/Ukip for change). If the tories win and do put referendum through The Libs will have a say on it as grrrclark said in previous post it would have to be passed through parliament and in the past DC has said he will do everything he can to keep the UK in the EU. We are being taken for a ride by the Cons and sheepishly you follow them.

I will vote Conservative, and am a paid up member of the Conservative party, because I believe that they are the best party to run the country. Are they perfect no. But the perfect Government doesn't exist as it continually has to make compromises. Simples.

[grrclark]

This is, IMHO, one of the best posts ever on PW. (Not the funniest though)

+1 GrrClark always posts sense.

Thanks chaps, very generous of you both.

 

I passionately believe in Great Britain and it's people, we can be brilliant, but at the same time we can be so self destructive. It genuinely upsets me when we attack it from within instead of embracing the opportunity it could provide.

 

Enough rants from me for tonight though.

[grrclark]

I will vote Conservative, and am a paid up member of the Conservative party, because I believe that they are the best party to run the country. Are they perfect no. But the perfect Government doesn't exist as it continually has to make compromises. Simples.

I am the same. If someone comes along that can offer a better route then I will jump ship.