djrwood Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Ok, to begin with you can't base the logic of your argument on a particular firearm with the premise that banning that particular type of firearm will prevent school shootings, as that is what you seem to want to base your argument on. Handguns are readily available in the UK; in the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and N.Ireland. Even on mainland UK people still own CF handguns, not in the numbers they once were granted, but owned nonetheless. Also blackpowder handguns are still in plentiful supply in the UK. You claim you're happy you live in a country which doesn't allow anyone to own a handgun by simply satisfying an FEO or words to that effect, but you do live in such a country I;m afraid. There is nothing whatsoever to stop anyone who owns a LBR from walking into a UK school armed with one, there is nothing to stop anyone who owns a blackpowder revolver from doing the same. You also live in a country where if you satisfy your FEO you can arm yourself with a CF lever-action carbine, a 50 round .22 semi automatic rifle, a 10 shot semi-automatic or 10 shot pump action shotgun, a straight-pull AR15 type variant etc and a high powered rifle in the calibre of your choice. There is nothing at all in place to prevent anyone from walking into a school with any of the aforementioned firearms. This is where your logic doesn't stand up. It was just as illegal for Hammond to walk into Dunblane primary school with his handguns as it still is today, but it will take more than a long barrel and an arm brace to make it any more improbable now than it was then. I'm not trying to persuade you to embrace the idea of handgun ownership in the UK, really I'm not, but please don't believe the hype; question everything. The handgun ban had nothing to do with handguns. I see where you are coming from and your knowledge of uk firearms far exceedes my own, hence my not owning one. However I thought in the uk to own any of the above firearms you have to prove there is a legitimate requirement for you to possess it. Even down to calibre of riffle if my extremely basic knowledge is correct? I don't think banning a particular type of firearm will stop all atrocitys/murders etc as there will always be some lunatic. However I do believe it must surely help. The strict gun laws in the uk including the ban on hand guns must surely contribute greatly to the minor amount of gun crime compared to the U.S.? Or do we simply have less lunatics? When on holiday in Vegas last year I was stopped and questioned by a 16 year old working in the supermarket. He was asking me about gun ownership in the uk and couldn't fathom why they are so tightly controlled. He went on to say how he owns several hand guns and riffles of various sizes including an assault rifle. He said when he and his friends planned on going shooting after school they simply took their guns with them and left them in the car until the end of the school day. He also said in the state of Nevada it was legal to buy grenades if they applied for an artillery permit. (Possibly the wrong name as it was a while ago and I drank bucket loads in Vegas). Now I find the above staggering hence why I am happy to be in the uk where controls are far tighter. It's every Americans right to own arms. Although i used schools as an example, there are plenty of other types incidents I could of raised if I had the time to type them all out on my phone. There's a plethora of incidents where toddlers and children have killed others through picking up a hand gun in the states. Is this just as likely in the uk with a rifle? You support having hand guns and I dont. We are not going to convince each other otherwise but I am glad we can discuss it like this as you have taught me something regarding gun law in the uk. I'm just glad 15 year old kids aren't taking their grandads black powder pistol in to school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 There's a plethora of incidents where toddlers and children have killed others through picking up a hand gun in the states. Is this just as likely in the uk with a rifle? The above, I'm afraid, has everything to do with how US firearms owners are allowed to store their personal firearms and nothing to do with the availability of said firearms. In mainland UK where self defence isn't good reason to own a firearm we are obliged by law to lock our firearms away in secure storage, whereas the opposite is true in the USA. A personal sidearm owned for the purposes of self defence wont fulfil that purpose if it is locked away. It is a fact the Americans have to live with and is down to parental supervision. A responsible adult would ensure their firearm is out of reach to minors, as they would with their paracetemols etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Erm, was this topic about Hooray henrys and of course foxes being exhausted and ripped apart by the hounds. Let"s get back to this jolly thread old bean come on chop ,chop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I think you meant Hamilton Scully......... not Harrison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Erm, was this topic about Hooray henrys and of course foxes being exhausted and ripped apart by the hounds. Let"s get back to this jolly thread old bean come on chop ,chop. Nah! It was about the possible repeal of the hunting act! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I think you meant Hamilton Scully......... not Harrison? My apologies. Thankyou. I meant Hamilton not Hammond; Top Gear on the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Nah! It was about the possible repeal of the hunting act! Hold on to your lucky stars, spaceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I'm with you and totally understand and agree with the logic of not supporting something just because it is a field sport. The ban on hand guns for instance in my opinion is a good thing. And this is coming from some one who when in America took great please in firing them at the range. Even tho I enjoyed it I am still happy I live in a country without them available to anyone that can satisfy an feo. I would hate to call America my home where everyone has access. One school shooting is too many and I wouldn't want it here. Let alone the numerous accidental deaths before you even start to look at the deliberate acts. It's all personal choice and just because I like to shoot doesn't mean I have to support every other country pursuit or form of hunting. That said as others have already said, I still wouldn't actively go out to get these things banned. Just because I don't agree with I don't feel the need to stop everyone else doing it! totally support this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Erm, was this topic about Hooray henrys and of course foxes being exhausted and ripped apart by the hounds. Let"s get back to this jolly thread old bean come on chop ,chop. A slight distraction I'll admit,for which I apologise, but to answer your question, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Erm, was this topic about Hooray henrys and of course foxes being exhausted and ripped apart by the hounds. Let"s get back to this jolly thread old bean come on chop ,chop. That's so 1980s You must have read " The Sloane Ranger handbook" my dear chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 A slight distraction I'll admit,for which I apologise, but to answer your question, no. Sure thing, Jezza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 So would none off u like to see an amendment more similar to in scotland where u can hunt hounds as normal as long as the woods are surrounded by guns? Essentailly mounted packs become more like gun packs. Then u get the best of both worlds most foxes will either be shot dead or get away clean if no gun where it breaks and any injured are able to be followed up. Must admit there is a massive ammount of misinformation or spin out there peddled by the anti's, as can be seen on here and thats coming from people who shoot. Not a massiv fan of mounted hunts but watched a few in my younger years but done a fair bit with gun packs, can be very effecient and in some parts (esp in scotland) are a really good if not the only way to control fox numbers Even when a trail runs for a few miles it does not actually mean the fox has been chased for miles, it may well have moved at dawn creating the scent trail and been lying sleeping in a wood until the hounds are very close I think the shooting orgs need to do more decent PR and get more of the facts out there as well as dismissing this toff/class thing as it really is nothing like wot is made out. Althou certain orgs/individuals don't help themselves or their cause either with some of the remarks about shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 That's so 1980s You must have read " The Sloane Ranger handbook" my dear chap. Please don't involve football into this!!. We are talking about foxes being chased by gentry on horseback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Good point well made sir! Please don't involve football into this!!. We are talking about foxes being chased by gentry on horseback. Ok, let's use the hunts on the chavs then, kill two birds ( vermin) with one stone. Please don't involve football into this!!. We are talking about foxes being chased by gentry on horseback. Except that as has been stated many times, a lot aren't gentry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Good point well made sir! Ok, let's use the hunts on the chavs then, kill two birds ( vermin) with one stone. Except that as has been stated many times, a lot aren't gentry. Well, the others are on the didgery doo and keep a horse In the spare room to evade bedroom tax. If this Is still applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 So would none off u like to see an amendment more similar to in scotland where u can hunt hounds as normal as long as the woods are surrounded by guns?Essentailly mounted packs become more like gun packs. Then u get the best of both worlds most foxes will either be shot dead or get away clean if no gun where it breaks and any injured are able to be followed up. Must admit there is a massive ammount of misinformation or spin out there peddled by the anti's, as can be seen on here and thats coming from people who shoot. Not a massiv fan of mounted hunts but watched a few in my younger years but done a fair bit with gun packs, can be very effecient and in some parts (esp in scotland) are a really good if not the only way to control fox numbers Even when a trail runs for a few miles it does not actually mean the fox has been chased for miles, it may well have moved at dawn creating the scent trail and been lying sleeping in a wood until the hounds are very close I think the shooting orgs need to do more decent PR and get more of the facts out there as well as dismissing this toff/class thing as it really is nothing like wot is made out. Althou certain orgs/individuals don't help themselves or their cause either with some of the remarks about shooting[/quote To be honest no! I would like to see the hunting act repealed because it is bad law forced through on bias, ignorance, prejudice and falsehoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomov Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Erm, was this topic about Hooray henrys and of course foxes being exhausted and ripped apart by the hounds. Let"s get back to this jolly thread old bean come on chop ,chop. You're doing this to get a rise aren't you Neil? You don't actually believe all of the twaddle about hooray henry's do you? I'm quite heavily involved with a pack of hounds (and have been with various others over the years). The 'Masters', (those in charge) at my current pack are a self employed builder, a bloke who restores classic cars, a manager in a charity and the chap who is payed by the hunt. One of them owns his own home. The whole affair runs on a shoe string ( with a total operating budget considerably less than a decent sized game syndicate, for what that's worth). Do you have some sort of feudal ranking system in mind whereby only those who fall into a certain income category can partake in a particular type of field sport? Good job I have a .22lr (the people's choice) - I certainly don't earn enough to have a twelve bore... Edited May 10, 2015 by tomov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I think he does you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 doubt its on the table they have more important things to worry about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 You're doing this to get a rise aren't you Neil? You don't actually believe all of the twaddle about hooray henry's do you? I'm quite heavily involved with a pack of hounds (and have been with various others over the years). The 'Masters', (those in charge) at my current pack are a self employed builder, a bloke who restores classic cars, a manager in a charity and the chap who is payed by the hunt. One of them owns his own home. The whole affair runs on a shoe string ( with a total operating budget considerably less than a decent sized game syndicate, for what that's worth). Do you have some sort of feudal ranking system in mind whereby only those who fall into a certain income category can partake in a particular type of field sport? Good job I have a .22lr (the people's choice) - I certainly don't earn enough to have a twelve bore... A rise from what !!. If you are heavily involved In a pack of hounds, keep your personal life to yourself, no need to post It on the Internet.God's sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomov Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I can't be bothered. You can't educate pork... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I can't be bothered. You can't educate pork... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I can't be bothered. You can't educate pork... Nor eat his squeak, but I'd love to pickle it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I can't be bothered. You can't educate pork... You could never educate pork. But you can educate a pig to a certain degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomov Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Nor eat his squeak, but I'd love to pickle it ! That did make me laugh Charlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts